From 1be510f9529cb082f802408b472a77d074b394c0 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Nicolas Vigier <boklm@mageia.org> Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 13:46:12 +0000 Subject: Add zarb MLs html archives --- zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-December/010728.html | 148 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 1 file changed, 148 insertions(+) create mode 100644 zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-December/010728.html (limited to 'zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-December/010728.html') diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-December/010728.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-December/010728.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..3b93cf7a6 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-December/010728.html @@ -0,0 +1,148 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] ANN: X11 now starts on tty1 + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20ANN%3A%20X11%20now%20starts%20on%20tty1&In-Reply-To=%3C4EFB7ABB.6050600%40colin.guthr.ie%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="010726.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="010580.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] ANN: X11 now starts on tty1</H1> + <B>Colin Guthrie</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20ANN%3A%20X11%20now%20starts%20on%20tty1&In-Reply-To=%3C4EFB7ABB.6050600%40colin.guthr.ie%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] ANN: X11 now starts on tty1">mageia at colin.guthr.ie + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Dec 28 21:23:23 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="010726.html">[Mageia-dev] ANN: X11 now starts on tty1 +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="010580.html">[Mageia-dev] ANN: X11 now starts on tty1 +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#10728">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#10728">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#10728">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#10728">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>'Twas brillig, and P. Christeas at 20/12/11 07:56 did gyre and gimble: +><i> On Saturday 17 December 2011, Colin Guthrie wrote: +</I>>><i> Back in the day, text logins were the norm, graphical logins came later. +</I>>><i> Text logins got ttys 1-7... These days they are pretty much useless for +</I>>><i> 99.5% of the use cases ... +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I'd like to question that. +</I>><i> You see, machines still have 'init 3' (or did Fedora remove that, too?), +</I> +Yup they remove it! Well, technically not, it's just not called "3" any +more, it's called "multi-user.target" which is altogether more sensible. + +><i> there +</I>><i> is still people wanting a Linux box (not desktop) not to have X. And that's +</I>><i> way more than 0.5% . +</I> +OK, the text you quoted is somewhat taken out of context. I never +suggested removing text logins or not catering for server installs sans +X (I use this setup myself). All I'm suggesting is that the first, say +six TTYs are reserved for the current target's preferred login system. +If you are on multi-user.target (aka runlevel 3) then you 1-6 offer you +a text login as before. However if you are on graphical target then 1-6 +should offer you graphical logins instead. + +><i> Or, X may be broken sometimes. +</I> +And I proposed that some higher numbers would be reserved for text-only +logins - i.e. tty's 8-9 or something. + +><i> So, standardization of tty1=text makes sense, is not just an old habit. +</I> +No, it's an old habit so you are defaulting to it as a solution when +there are a myriad of others out there that (IMO) fit better. + +><i> Because, you are *always* expecting to find a working tty console on a Linux +</I>><i> box[1], while X only launches a bit later, if it can[2]. Putting the one that +</I>><i> works in the default place is more reasonable, see? +</I> +I also thing it's reasonable that *something* pops up when X tries to +start and fails. Whether this is a getty that allows you to log in or +something even more friendly, doesn't really matter. + +><i> Really, why don't you patch the kernel to start at tty7? you could call that +</I>><i> "progress", too. +</I> +IMO, no it's not progress. It's keeping the same conventions for the +sake of it rather than evaluating what makes sense with a fresh pair of +eyes. The ONLY valid reason I can see for keeping graphics on tty7 is +simply that's that's how it was done before. Now this does carry some +weight I agree, but when evaluating what makes Linux hard to use for +newbies and novices, we sometimes have to through out "quirks" that we +are used to for the sake of a more logical approach. + +><i> Some things in Linux could improve, but some don't need change. Unix legacy is +</I>><i> what makes Linux great[3] +</I> +Citation needed. And your footnote is complete nonsense. Time has not +proven it right at all. It's proven that it works, but that doesn't mean +it's optimal. I mean time has proven that a bubble sort works. Does that +mean we should not look to e.g. quick sort algorithms etc? Of course not. + +><i>, IMHO. Part of that legacy (the "old school") is to +</I>><i> have failsafe defaults, is to start with a minimal design and then build the +</I>><i> extras on top. +</I> +And you are welcome to your view, but you have to admit it's clouded. I +try very hard to discard any clouded views I have due to habits. I mean +a regular newbie user doesn't consider "graphical UI" to be an "extra +that you built on top"... it's the core to them. Anything less and it's +not an operating system! + +><i> That's why Unix principles (or "hangovers") have survived so +</I>><i> many decades, while other OSs have gone with the wind[4]. +</I> +A lot of unixisms are good. But some are bad and just didn't have any +viable alternative until people pull their finger out and design and +develop some stuff to replace it! You cannot say "unix is good" as a +broad statement. You have to each component on it's own merits. + +Col + +-- + +Colin Guthrie +colin(at)mageia.org +<A HREF="http://colin.guthr.ie/">http://colin.guthr.ie/</A> + +Day Job: + Tribalogic Limited <A HREF="http://www.tribalogic.net/">http://www.tribalogic.net/</A> +Open Source: + Mageia Contributor <A HREF="http://www.mageia.org/">http://www.mageia.org/</A> + PulseAudio Hacker <A HREF="http://www.pulseaudio.org/">http://www.pulseaudio.org/</A> + Trac Hacker <A HREF="http://trac.edgewall.org/">http://trac.edgewall.org/</A> +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="010726.html">[Mageia-dev] ANN: X11 now starts on tty1 +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="010580.html">[Mageia-dev] ANN: X11 now starts on tty1 +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#10728">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#10728">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#10728">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#10728">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> -- cgit v1.2.1