[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout

Fri Dec 10 19:37:38 CET 2010

On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 19:14, Wolfgang Bornath <molch.b at googlemail.com> wrote:
+> 2010/12/10 Romain d'Alverny <rdalverny at gmail.com>:
+>>
+>> Ok, but you still take into account SP in your answer. :-p (we would
+>> have come to that, but the idea was to think about it from a naïve,
+>> software-patent-free perspective).
+>
+> If there were no software patents anywhere what would be the issue of
+> this discussion?
+> IMHO it makes no sense to discuss something which does not exist
+
+It does. Because it helps looking at a problem from a totally
+different perspective, build from that, and see the
+missing/conflicting pieces when you look back at the full problem (or
+as you used to look at it before). Which conflicting/missing pieces
+may not be the ones one thought they were.
+
+> I see the strategy in your proposition but:
+>
+> 1. We know from the start that there ARE packages with software which
+> is patented in some countries. So, the "let's start empty and see what
+> comes up" is already done with.
+
+Are there issues with it? (looking at my previous check-list, maybe to
+improve). If so, yes, let's fill this up. If not, let's leave it alone
+in the core.
+
+I mean, what difference does it make with PLF repositories that are
+already mirrored? what differences does it make with Debian stuff that
+is already mirrored? do they get cease & desist? do we hear about
+this?
+
+> 2. In some countries mirror maintainers can not wait until somebody
+> raises his hand, there are lawyers who write nice "cease and desist"
+> letters, attached is a bill you have to pay. In Germany this is called
+> "Kostenpflichtige Abmahnung"  and has grown to a habit of some
+> lawyers.
+
+Then in these cases, two options:
+ - just do not mirror; and people use mirrors on the borders;
+ - Mageia (or some related entity) provides legal services about this
+(taking responsibility for the hosting or other).
+
+Why "just do not mirror"? Because, taking the strict statu-quo point
+of view regarding the software patent thing, that is "just follow the
+most restrictive set of rules", we won't be able to cope with just
+medias to separate patented software from non-patented sw. It will be
+a matter of tags, because the situation is different from territory to
+territory. And there are more than two for that matter.
+
+> Meaning: you can't wait and see what happens, you have to make sure
+> that it does not happen from the start.
+
+We can't be sure at all of anything. That's why that's to take a
+risk-management attitude, provided what we want to achieve, what
+stance we want to take.
+
+> I mean, opinions about software patents set aside for a minute,
+> software patents are protected by official law in those countries. You
+> can not break the law on the basis of "let's see what happens".
+
+Many do. Not only for software, but for everything. For many reasons,
+among which can be: the law is broken, the law is becoming obsolete,
+people do not enforce it, the law should be changed, etc.
+
+Well, actually, there are two options: break the law/try it as it is.
+Or follow it strictly to demonstrate its absurdity. What I propose
+here is a middle-ground some other projects already take.
+
+With the reasonable attitude to manage cases that _are precisely
+identified_ (so we avoid reports such as "this piece of software is
+likely to be patented"; point needed is: is it? or not? how, why, by
+who, is it valid, is it free, is it enforced, are we noticeable/a
+target, does it matter given our size?
+
+As said before, regarding law on software patents, the situation today
+is, that's a battlefield anyway. Although the situation in EU should
+be clear (no SP), it's not (as many other things at the moment too,
+sadly).
+
+That's a proposal. It has shortcomings too of course; what I find
+interesting in this is that:
+ - it makes Mageia put a few steps into the software patents debate
+(instead of only trying to cope with an inconsistent, unpracticable
+set of rules that we mostly even don't find legitimate at the very
+start);
+ - it may reveal to be less of a burden than we currently think; it
+may be worse; either case, we can adapt from a situation we will have
+_experienced_.
+
+Now, that's nothing more than a proposal. :-p
+
+Romain
+