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[Mageia-dev] Identifying Target Markets

+ andré + andr55 at laposte.net +
+ Sun Oct 3 07:17:08 CEST 2010 +

+
+ +
Graham Lauder a écrit :
+> On Friday 01 Oct 2010 20:37:52 Wolfgang Bornath wrote:
+>    
+>> 2010/10/1 Graham Lauder<yorick_ at openoffice.org>:
+>>      
+>>>> The families: if the kid wants a computer then either Dad buys a new
+>>>> one and the kids get the old, or they buy a new one but mom has no
+>>>> say, it's either Dad or the kids because the parents don't know
+>>>> anything about computers.
+>>>>          
+>>> Nonsense, It's interesting I know quite a few German families here in NZ,
+>>> perhaps that's why they migrated, so the wife could make the majority of
+>>> the purchasing decisions.  ;)  I'm afraid that your impressions fly in
+>>> the face of all the real marketing intelligence. Dad or kids buy the
+>>> computers because Mum has been left out of the demographic, typical
+>>> given the number of women in the industry, but target that demographic
+>>> and Mum becomes decision maker.
+>>>        
+You are partly right, but you miss an important point.  It is probably 
+true, in families in liberal western societies, that the mother decides 
+most of the purchases, including what specific item is purchased.  And 
+it may well be that the mother decides whether or not to buy a 
+computer.  However, at least here in Canada (where women do indeed make 
+most of the purchasing decisions), women have a strong tendancy to defer 
+to a male opinion in deciding what computer to purchase, or operating 
+system or software to use.  This even occurs in professional settings, 
+in contexts where a woman obviously has the greatest understanding of 
+the company's needs.  I've seen this numerous times in consulting, where 
+I had to encourage their input in order to lead to a rational decision 
+for the company, which was prepared to follow the opinion of someone who 
+obviously did not understand the situation.
+However, I do agree that the mother will have an important influence in 
+the type of software selected, even if she allows the man to make the 
+final decision.
+Note that in my mind, using this frame of mind as the primary criteria 
+in selecting the logo is misleading.
+What is needed is a logo that is distinctive, and attractive.  And not 
+out of place for the technology in question.  These factors are 
+culturally dependant as well.
+Note that most successful computer companies use blue/green colours.  A 
+notable exception being Ubuntu - which like Microsoft, uses their 
+bottomless pockets to promote their distro.  As well as having excellent 
+documentation.  So they succeed despite their ugly brown colours.  Which 
+may be considered attractive in certain markets, like South Africa.
+>> I don't know about marketing, I've just been living here for decades
+>> and been helping in the computer field for more than 15 years. I hold
+>> computer courses entry level, I give advice with computer purchases in
+>> families, etc. All my practical experience tells me what I've written
+>> here.
+>>      
+> OK then let me put it another way, you have taught IT for 15 years.  Probably
+> in the same geographic area.  It's a pretty good guess that you have probably
+> no more than three degrees of separation to maybe 90% of the people you
+> interact with.  90+% of the people that you interact with speak the same
+> native tongue as you, so already your view of the world is extremely limited.
+>
+> So lets talk hypothetically: If you have taught for 15 years and you had an
+> average class size of say 20. 5 periods a day  that's a hundred faces a day
+> and you saw these people once a week and assuming a 40 week school year.
+> That's 20,000 a year.... hang on not enough, OK you change completely 4 times
+> a year, so that's 80.000 a year... wow that's a lot, over 15 years that's
+> 1.2million people you could have hypothetically interacted with each for about
+> ten hours total.  However in marketing terms on a global scale that is a
+> pinprick sample.  Marketers get information for instance, just from rewards
+> programmes that do that sort of sample in many countries in any one hour of
+> any one day across many demographics, ages, income streams, locations and so
+> on and what this tells us is that apart from some minor local differences,
+> people in western democratic, first world countries behave in a very similar
+> fashion.
+Obviously you don't understand how surveys work.  It makes me wonder if 
+you have ever done one.  (btw, I have.)
+Surveys depend on a very limited sample, and extrapolate that to presume 
+a global result.  Like election polls, they can be -- and often are -- 
+dead wrong.
+The experiences of wobo -- and similar experiences myself -- are just as 
+valid.
+I'm not trying to say that you do not have good insights -- but rather 
+that in is too easy to get carried away, and other's input is important.
+>    
+>>      
+>>> Every place is unique, but not as unique as we'd all like to believe, one
+>>> thing that marketing tells you.  A good example is Micky Ds, the same
+>>> everywhere, with slight local variations.
+>>>        
+>> Nonsense (to use the same language as you do). You can't apply some
+>> junkfood chain success story to computers and software.
+>>      
+> LOL, in fact you can, at the end of the day it is a consumer item.  It is a
+> luxury good that only a small proportion of the worlds population can afford.
+> In capitalist consumer model societies the market has little variation apart
+> from local fashion. So for instance, like McDs,  Ipods and Iphones are sold
+> the same way world wide and that is matched with other global brands.
+>    
+You can -- but ignoring the difference between the contexts introduces 
+bias -- which can lead to totally wrong conclusions.
+e.g., if you are marketing automotive tools, you would probably focus on 
+men you like to work on cars.  If you included women who didn't, you 
+could end up with colours preferred by women as an important factor.  
+Obviously ridiculous if you carefully consider the context.
+btw, a computer and computer software is not necessarily a luxery item.
+If it is used for educational purposes, managing the budget, and 
+communication, it is no more a luxury item than a car.
+Also note that, depending on the type of computer, today most of the 
+world's population CAN afford a computer.  (In the sense of one per family.)
+>    
+>> As I said, I disagree with your points not because I am another
+>> marketing guy but because of experience.
+>>
+>> wobo
+>>      
+> As I pointed out above your experience is in fact limited, that's not a bad
+> thing, it means you can target those variations that the global brands ignore
+> in a local market.  However our need is to be a global brand and so we target
+> demographics that we know exist every where.  So for instance: Parents
+> everywhere, no matter what country or society, want the best for their Kids...
+> simple really.
+What isn't simple is how one accommodates this desire.  Which will 
+differ by culture and personal experiences.  There is no 
+one-size-fits-all, without an enormous advertising budget.
+One thing that is certain to me, the logo is not the answer.  A logo 
+that says "young family" will alienate other types of users, who are 
+necessarily much more numerous.
+These other users include, potentially, most of the current Mandriva users.
+However easy selection of packages to accommodate the various niche 
+markets can indeed lead to an expanding user base.
+And assuredly, you play an important role in identifying these various 
+niche markets.
+
+- André (andre999)
+>
+>
+> Cheers
+> GL
+>    
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ +
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+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000688.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000688.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..6b113446f --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000688.html @@ -0,0 +1,142 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Identifying Target Markets + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Identifying Target Markets

+ andré + andr55 at laposte.net +
+ Sun Oct 3 07:46:57 CEST 2010 +

+
+ +
Marc Paré a écrit :
+>
+> Le 2010-10-01 05:56, Wolfgang Bornath a écrit :
+>> 2010/10/1 Marc Paré<marc at marcpare.com>:
+>>>> Such applications don't have to be installed by default. They just 
+>>>> have
+>>>> to be available on the installation DVD, with a selectable Educational
+>>>> group of applications, much like the Internet and Server groups
+>>>> available on existing Mandriva DVD's. It could even be called "Young
+>>>> Family".
+>>>>
+>>>> Note that in the past (at least about 10 years ago), RedHat CD's had
+>>>> many selectable installation groups, many of which overlapped. So 
+>>>> using
+>>>> this approach, there could be groups called "Educational", "Young
+>>>> Family", and "Home Office", for example, all containing the
+>>>> go-openoffice office suite, among other applications.
+>>>> I believe that the current Mandriva DVD doesn't have any overlap 
+>>>> between
+>>>> installation groups.
+>>>>
+>>>> - André (andre999)
+>>>
+>>> I like this approach.
+>>
+>> Same here. When I used SuSE Linux 4.4.1 they had the same approach. I
+>> even did several installations, each with a different set of
+>> applications, using the same /home. A good way to find out what you
+>> really want/need.
+>>
+>> Marc, what you wrote about kids being the future is common knowledge,
+>> I wonder that so many companies do not recognize that. Microsoft does,
+>> they are sponsoring school computer networks and internet access, thus
+>> creating their future client base.
+>>
+>> wobo
+>
+> Suse Linux really lost momentum when Novell didn't/has not recognized 
+> that its netware application days are at an end. If they pushed for a 
+> Suse educational netware application/distro, most school boards using 
+> the Novel netware apps would migrate this way. Fewer disruptions to 
+> their systems. School boards plan 5-10 years in advance for changes 
+> and it is extremely difficult for them to change in the middle of 
+> planned migration. There is a lot of money involved in this. Most 
+> board will pay Microsoft approx. $30-50/seat for use of MSWord -- so 
+> for example our board has over 10,000 computers. That is a huge cost 
+> just for the use of a Wordprocessor. I don't know the cost of the 
+> Novell install/contract but it would most likely approach this amount.
+>
+> If Mageia had educational partners on-board it would be a huge initial 
+> plus to the distro. School boards are, in a traditional sense, 
+> expected to spend money and not save/make money. We could, for 
+> example, offer to tailor certain aspects of the distro for our 
+> education partners. Note that the focus on educational institutions is 
+> for foster use of knowledge, so they would most likely be interested 
+> in areas of a distro that focussed on kids/adult learning needs. If 
+> Mageia did this well, then this could then lead to more educational 
+> partners coming on board. We would only need 2-5 educational partners 
+> to kick-start this approach. I would suggest to try for 1 educational 
+> partner per continent. It would then mushroom from there.
+>
+> Unfortunately, not having a Mageia server service may hurt us. But 
+> there is nothing to stop us from partnering or tooling up our 
+> community distro to work well with a server (in this case I would go 
+> for RedHat servers).
+>
+> There is no doubt that the next major expenses in the very near future 
+> for school boards is the change in netware applications. And they are 
+> still very confused. What they do know is that it will most likely be 
+> a linux solution. That is pretty well accepted.
+>
+> Marc
+Targeting the school boards makes a lot of sense.
+Note that Openoffice targeted various gov't organisations in France, 
+some of which ended up migrating to Mandriva as well.  Maybe that could 
+work with school boards as well.  I'm tempted to try something like that 
+with mine, in banlieue of Montréal.
+Just out of curiosity, what is your school board ?
+
+For the server, if Mandriva management were a little more reasonable, it 
+would be good to partner with them.  (I'd like to see something like 
+RedHat/Fedora.)
+In any case, you can't go wrong with RedHat.
+
+André (andre999)
+
+ + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000689.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000689.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..e821422ae --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000689.html @@ -0,0 +1,124 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Identifying Target Markets + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Identifying Target Markets

+ andré + andr55 at laposte.net +
+ Sun Oct 3 08:11:58 CEST 2010 +

+
+ +
Kira a écrit :
+> 在 Thu, 30 Sep 2010 22:18:08 +0800, Samuel Verschelde 
+> <stormi at laposte.net>寫道:
+>
+>>
+>> Le jeudi 30 septembre 2010 16:05:26, Kira a écrit :
+>>> So, what's the difference Mageia had toward other distribution?
+>>
+>> "Simple to use yet powerful" :
+>> - newbie-friendly (yes ubuntu is on this market, but to me Mandriva 
+>> does it better)
+>> - powerful
+>> - comprehensive (many packages available in many fields)
+>>
+>> Then nothing prevents from saying also, for example :
+>> "Mageia, ideal for music making", with news, screenshots, people 
+>> sharing their experience, howtos...
+>> "Mageia, easy yet powerful on servers", ...
+>>
+>> You said nothing about my concern that Mandriva may be seen only as, 
+>> say, a distribution for education. What about that ?
+>>
+> All purpose means no one knows what the distro wants to do.
+> Making a specific version for education/small business or whatever
+> won't makes the distro seems only focus on one thing, but a proof of
+> full feature OS.
+Don't agree.  A special version will create the impression that it is 
+all that Mageia can do.
+On the other hand, the possibility to select a special group of software 
+(like "young family" or "education") to be installed from the DVD would 
+be very useful.
+>
+> The point is: you have to emphasis something different, not something
+> others also owns/easily achieved/already well-implemented/advertised.
+> I don't agree with the way ubuntu flushing the whole board of different
+> purpose but actually same thing strategy, but it does makes people knows
+> what to choose to fit their need, which is important to makes people
+> accept your product.
+> We do have to find a place in the market slice, or no one would care
+> about who you are. All-purpose is great, but not for people who is 
+> unfamiliar
+> to our distro:
+> It's too vague and not attractive since no one knows your strength.
+> ____
+Strength, you ask ?
+Ease of use -- without sacrificing power and security.
+In my mind, Mandriva is even easier to use and maintain than Microsoft's 
+version of windows, especially if you don't use their office suite.
+And certainly it is easier to use and maintain than most distros.
+
+That doesn't preclude talking about the various uses readily available, 
+especially if there are special installation groups available on the DVD.
+
+- André (andre999)
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000690.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000690.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..9292d5b87 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000690.html @@ -0,0 +1,122 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Identifying Target Markets + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Identifying Target Markets

+ andré + andr55 at laposte.net +
+ Sun Oct 3 08:29:02 CEST 2010 +

+
+ +
Michael Scherer a écrit :
+> Le jeudi 30 septembre 2010 à 22:05 +0800, Kira a écrit :
+>
+>    
+>> "A distribution for Newbie" is good, but I think what Graham said is
+>> better.
+>>      
+> Well,
+> saying "a distribution for newbies" is not as good as it sound.
+>
+> If you market the distribution so people think "if you are a newbie, use
+> this distro", people will think "he use this distribution so he is a
+> newbie". This will drive knowledgeable peoples away to others
+> distribution, because they will feel they will learn more by using
+> another distro ( which is wrong ) and because others peoples will appear
+> as more knowledgeable when they use a distro that is not aimed at
+> newbies.
+>
+> In turn, this mean a diminution of the global expertise in the
+> community. Less expert users to answer to support, less experts users to
+> report bug, fix packages, create softwares or contribute, and to
+> basically teach to new users how to be good community member resulting
+> in less quality, and a less sustainable community.
+>
+> Apple does it correctly. They never say "we target newbie users".
+> See http://www.apple.com//why-mac/
+> "better computer" "most advanced os" "award winning support" "latest
+> technology" "software you love".
+>
+> Everything resolve around how they are good, not how beginner you can
+> be.
+>
+> Or see http://www.apple.com/why-mac/better-os/
+> they say "it is easy", but they never say "it is easy and can be used by
+> a newbie". They say "it is easy and you will learn how to use it fast",
+> which is more positive.
+>
+> And so I think we should also try to avoid this pitfall, right from the
+> start, if we want to have a thriving sustainable community.
+>
+>    
+how about :
+"Mageia : Linux that just works"
+"Mageia : Easy, Powerful, and Secure"
+
+The danger is to identify Mageia too much with any particular market.
+Mandriva has attracted users and developpers by its ease of use.
+Mageia starts with this strength, which we should promote.
+That doesn't stop us from communicating the range of capabilities of 
+Mageia, just that we should avoid too narrow a focus.
+
+- André (andre999)
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000691.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000691.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..01bc2ff46 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000691.html @@ -0,0 +1,104 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Identifying Target Markets + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Identifying Target Markets

+ Marc Paré + marc at marcpare.com +
+ Sun Oct 3 08:33:01 CEST 2010 +

+
+ +
> Targeting the school boards makes a lot of sense.
+> Note that Openoffice targeted various gov't organisations in France,
+> some of which ended up migrating to Mandriva as well. Maybe that could
+> work with school boards as well. I'm tempted to try something like that
+> with mine, in banlieue of Montréal.
+> Just out of curiosity, what is your school board ?
+>
+> For the server, if Mandriva management were a little more reasonable, it
+> would be good to partner with them. (I'd like to see something like
+> RedHat/Fedora.)
+> In any case, you can't go wrong with RedHat.
+>
+> André (andre999)
+>
+
+Bonjour André:
+
+As an example, the official word from the Ontario Ministry of Education 
+is that if users cannot afford the use of MSOffice, that we are allowed 
+to promote the use of StarOffice. Here is the official link: 
+http://www.osapac.org/db/view_software.php?id=310  Sun had made 
+arrangements to provide support through their 1-800 ... telephone 
+service (unofficially, they had also said that they would have supported 
+OpenOffice user queries as well, although this policy may have changed 
+after this policy had been posted on the net). There are over 2 million 
+students being taught in Ontario where I teach. Quite a good market to 
+target. You can find the statistics on registered school student numbers 
+here: http://www42.statcan.ca/smr08/2007/smr08_088_2007-eng.htm
+
+If we were to commit to an "Education based" install (this could be done 
+at the point of installation where you could tag the type of distro that 
+you would want installed) with SOLID alternatives for the most common 
+software packages used in educational institutions, then we could make a 
+convincing case for the installation of Mageia desktops in schools. Most 
+governmental agencies today are sensitive to ways of cutting down on 
+expenses.
+
+The only problem that I would see in doing such a promotion is that this 
+type of usage would require a server/client solution. This is where the 
+choice of server partnership would become important. RehHat and Suse are 
+well-known servers options in the business world. We could then partner 
+up with them and make sure that Mageia/RedHat or Mageia/Suse solutions 
+are rock solid. Unless we seek a partnership with MandrivaLinux server, 
+but in North American markets, Mandriva is really not a force to contend 
+with and is not really known.
+
+Marc
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000692.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000692.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..c36d6807f --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000692.html @@ -0,0 +1,71 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Identifying Target Markets + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Identifying Target Markets

+ Wolfgang Bornath + molch.b at googlemail.com +
+ Sun Oct 3 08:34:28 CEST 2010 +

+
+ +
2010/10/3 andré <andr55 at laposte.net>:
+>
+> Targeting the school boards makes a lot of sense.
+
+Again this is something you can not generalize, different countries
+have different structures.
+In Germany it is not a school board who decides what software will be
+bought for a certain region or school. This is decided on state level
+for the various states of the federal republic. You have to go to some
+state office and compete with the reps of Microsoft. You do not talk
+to parents or teachers, it's some bureaucrats who decide this over
+here (with very few exceptions).
+
+Same with many other countries. This school board system as in the US
+is not a world wide system.
+
+ + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000693.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000693.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..3571e0dff --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000693.html @@ -0,0 +1,107 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Identifying Target Markets + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Identifying Target Markets

+ Graham Lauder + yorick_ at openoffice.org +
+ Sun Oct 3 08:39:51 CEST 2010 +

+
+ +
On Sunday 03 Oct 2010 19:34:28 Wolfgang Bornath wrote:
+> 2010/10/3 andré <andr55 at laposte.net>:
+> > Targeting the school boards makes a lot of sense.
+> 
+> Again this is something you can not generalize, different countries
+> have different structures.
+> In Germany it is not a school board who decides what software will be
+> bought for a certain region or school. This is decided on state level
+> for the various states of the federal republic. You have to go to some
+> state office and compete with the reps of Microsoft. You do not talk
+> to parents or teachers, it's some bureaucrats who decide this over
+> here (with very few exceptions).
+> 
+> Same with many other countries. This school board system as in the US
+> is not a world wide system.
+
+Marc is talking about Canada and despite rumours to the contrary, Canada is as 
+much a part of the US as New Zealand is a part of Australia.  
+
+And In fact in all of these countries and the UK as a matter of fact, software 
+purchase is a school decision. Education Departments, as in NZ, may negotiate 
+with vendors for a block price for schools but the purchase is the schools 
+decision.     
+
+Targeting schools does make a lot of sense in a Global context.
+
+One local school here just went with Ubuntu on 1500 netbooks 
+
+http://manaiakalani.blogspot.com/search/label/1%3A1
+
+which will be one for every student.  Interestingly they don't actually 
+advertise the OS, although they will be using the go-oo.org version of OOo 
+because of it's Googledocs/Zoho integration.  
+
+There are a lot of other examples, you can talk to the people at the sharp end 
+on the K12OSN maillist if you want.  It is a significant market, just ask MS, 
+they bleed just to keep a toehold.. 
+
+Cheers
+GL 
+
+-- 
+Graham Lauder,
+OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ
+http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html
+
+OpenOffice.org Migration and training Consultant.
+
+INGOTs Assessor Trainer
+(International Grades in Open Technologies)
+www.theingots.org
+
+ + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000694.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000694.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..f6d9b81ce --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000694.html @@ -0,0 +1,120 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] About Mandriva tools future : Host Mandriva tools on github + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] About Mandriva tools future : Host Mandriva tools on github

+ Fabrice Facorat + fabrice.facorat at gmail.com +
+ Sun Oct 3 09:58:54 CEST 2010 +

+
+ +
2010/10/2 Ahmad Samir <ahmadsamir3891 at gmail.com>:
+> On 2 October 2010 21:50, Fabrice Facorat <fabrice.facorat at gmail.com> wrote:
+>> Le 2 octobre 2010 17:52, Nicolas Lécureuil <neoclust.mageia at gmail.com> a écrit :
+>>>
+>>>
+>>> 2010/10/2 Fabrice Facorat <fabrice.facorat at gmail.com>
+>>>>
+>>>> 2010/10/1 Sinner from the Prairy <sinnerbofh at gmail.com>:
+>>>> > Fabrice Facorat wrote:
+>>
+>>>> > Mandriva tries that, with look'n'feel consistent on MCC, KDE and Gnome.
+>>>> > draketools work on TUI or GUI. They work well.
+>>>>
+>>>> some tools does not work correctly however and are buggy
+>>>>
+>>>
+>>> Better  is to fix them instead of rewrite all.
+>>
+>> you know, when something have been broken for more than 2 years ... at
+>> some point you may think that the best would be to just change it ;-)
+>>
+>>
+>>
+>> --
+>> Close the World, Open the Net
+>> http://www.linux-wizard.net
+>>
+>
+> Specifying what exactly is wrong is an essential issue here:
+> - Just "perl is hard to understand" isn't a problem for users, users
+> don't code it.
+
+but for dev and potential contributor this increase the antry barrier
+for contribution
+
+> - Not being used by other distros is again not a problem, each distro
+> has native tools that no other distros use (as misc said a couple of
+> emails up)
+
+sure. But do Mandriva still have enough man power to maintain so many tools ?
+
+> So, no, I wouldn't throw my old box out the window because if it works
+> even if it's slow, until I buy a new box / can afford a new box.
+> drakxtools work, until a viable alternative, if needed at all, is
+> provided they should be kept.
+
+I do say that we should do a complete analysis of all the mandriva
+tools ( drakxtools, drakwizard, ... ), and have the decision on a
+per-tool basis
+
+-- 
+Close the World, Open the Net
+http://www.linux-wizard.net
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000695.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000695.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..fce4691b3 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000695.html @@ -0,0 +1,91 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Identifying Target Markets + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Identifying Target Markets

+ Marc Paré + marc at marcpare.com +
+ Sun Oct 3 10:06:22 CEST 2010 +

+
+ +
Le 2010-10-03 02:34, Wolfgang Bornath a écrit :
+> 2010/10/3 andré<andr55 at laposte.net>:
+>>
+>> Targeting the school boards makes a lot of sense.
+>
+> Again this is something you can not generalize, different countries
+> have different structures.
+> In Germany it is not a school board who decides what software will be
+> bought for a certain region or school. This is decided on state level
+> for the various states of the federal republic. You have to go to some
+> state office and compete with the reps of Microsoft. You do not talk
+> to parents or teachers, it's some bureaucrats who decide this over
+> here (with very few exceptions).
+>
+> Same with many other countries. This school board system as in the US
+> is not a world wide system.
+>
+
+I can't speak for André (he sounds like he is Canadian), but I am not a 
+US citizen, I am Canadian. Our school system and software purchase 
+models are the same as you describe. However, we do consult with school 
+boards and interested partners before acquiring software licences. I am 
+sure, the German states would consult with their partners before doing 
+such as well. We have provinces in Canada and, as you say, in Germany 
+you have states -- same hierarchy but with different names. As far as I 
+know, the American model is more of a federalist model and 
+consultation/coordination is done mostly from a national point of view. 
+I am sure someone on the list will straighten us out on this account.
+
+We shouldn't assume that, if people describe a different system on this 
+ML, that they are therefore American citizen who are trying to impose it 
+on everyone. I just assume that we are all Canadians on the list (chuckles).
+
+Marc
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000696.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000696.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..637ea1311 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000696.html @@ -0,0 +1,76 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] About Mandriva tools future : Host Mandriva tools on github + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] About Mandriva tools future : Host Mandriva tools on github

+ Dimitrios Glentadakis + dglent at gmail.com +
+ Sun Oct 3 10:18:24 CEST 2010 +

+
+ +
An old but interresting about interview for Mandriva's tools in perl:
+http://www.perl.com/pub/2005/02/24/mandrakelinux.html
+
+
+-- 
+Dimitrios Glentadakis
+-------------- next part --------------
+An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
+URL: </pipermail/mageia-dev/attachments/20101003/12dd8489/attachment-0001.html>
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000697.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000697.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..2473fb6db --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000697.html @@ -0,0 +1,108 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Identifying Target Markets + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Identifying Target Markets

+ Graham Lauder + yorick_ at openoffice.org +
+ Sun Oct 3 09:25:31 CEST 2010 +

+
+ +
On Sunday 03 Oct 2010 21:06:22 Marc Paré wrote:
+> Le 2010-10-03 02:34, Wolfgang Bornath a écrit :
+> > 2010/10/3 andré<andr55 at laposte.net>:
+> >> Targeting the school boards makes a lot of sense.
+> > 
+> > Again this is something you can not generalize, different countries
+> > have different structures.
+> > In Germany it is not a school board who decides what software will be
+> > bought for a certain region or school. This is decided on state level
+> > for the various states of the federal republic. You have to go to some
+> > state office and compete with the reps of Microsoft. You do not talk
+> > to parents or teachers, it's some bureaucrats who decide this over
+> > here (with very few exceptions).
+> > 
+> > Same with many other countries. This school board system as in the US
+> > is not a world wide system.
+> 
+> I can't speak for André (he sounds like he is Canadian), but I am not a
+> US citizen, I am Canadian. Our school system and software purchase
+> models are the same as you describe. However, we do consult with school
+> boards and interested partners before acquiring software licences. I am
+> sure, the German states would consult with their partners before doing
+> such as well. We have provinces in Canada and, as you say, in Germany
+> you have states -- same hierarchy but with different names. As far as I
+> know, the American model is more of a federalist model and
+> consultation/coordination is done mostly from a national point of view.
+> I am sure someone on the list will straighten us out on this account.
+> 
+> We shouldn't assume that, if people describe a different system on this
+> ML, that they are therefore American citizen who are trying to impose it
+> on everyone. I just assume that we are all Canadians on the list
+> (chuckles).
+
+I noticed that there seemed to be an overwhelming sense of reasonableness,  
+Maybe you're right.  ;)
+
+> 
+> Marc
+
+
+GL
+
+-- 
+Graham Lauder,
+OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ
+http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html
+
+OpenOffice.org Migration and training Consultant.
+
+INGOTs Assessor Trainer
+(International Grades in Open Technologies)
+www.theingots.org
+
+ + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000698.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000698.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..342066c6f --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000698.html @@ -0,0 +1,71 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Identifying Target Markets + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Identifying Target Markets

+ Wolfgang Bornath + molch.b at googlemail.com +
+ Sun Oct 3 10:34:59 CEST 2010 +

+
+ +
2010/10/3 Marc Paré <marc at marcpare.com>:
+>
+> I can't speak for André (he sounds like he is Canadian), but I am not a US
+> citizen, I am Canadian. Our school system and software purchase models are
+> the same as you describe. However, we do consult with school boards and
+> interested partners before acquiring software licences. I am sure, the
+> German states would consult with their partners before doing such as well
+
+Unfortunately they do not. There have been lots of discussions but
+especially the hierarchy concerning education is very tight over here.
+All decisions are political decisions, not primarily based on technics
+or facts but on the political programs. SIngle schools or parents or
+students are not involved in such decisions.
+
+wobo
+
+ + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000699.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000699.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..e8d2f7784 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000699.html @@ -0,0 +1,66 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Identifying Target Markets + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Identifying Target Markets

+ herman + herman at aeronetworks.ca +
+ Sun Oct 3 10:51:10 CEST 2010 +

+
+ +
> Unfortunately they do not. There have been lots of discussions but
+> especially the hierarchy concerning education is very tight over here.
+> All decisions are political decisions, not primarily based on technics
+> or facts but on the political programs. SIngle schools or parents or
+> students are not involved in such decisions.
+> 
+> wobo
+Maybe you should send the German bureaucrats to Canada for re-education
+eh? ;)
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000700.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000700.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..c6b9eca33 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000700.html @@ -0,0 +1,91 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Identifying Target Markets + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Identifying Target Markets

+ Marc Paré + marc at marcpare.com +
+ Sun Oct 3 10:57:42 CEST 2010 +

+
+ +
Le 2010-10-03 04:34, Wolfgang Bornath a écrit :
+> 2010/10/3 Marc Paré<marc at marcpare.com>:
+>>
+>> I can't speak for André (he sounds like he is Canadian), but I am not a US
+>> citizen, I am Canadian. Our school system and software purchase models are
+>> the same as you describe. However, we do consult with school boards and
+>> interested partners before acquiring software licences. I am sure, the
+>> German states would consult with their partners before doing such as well
+>
+> Unfortunately they do not. There have been lots of discussions but
+> especially the hierarchy concerning education is very tight over here.
+> All decisions are political decisions, not primarily based on technics
+> or facts but on the political programs. SIngle schools or parents or
+> students are not involved in such decisions.
+>
+> wobo
+>
+
+It is strange that parents, teachers and even students would not have a 
+say. How can there be an acquisition and amortization period for your 
+software programmes if you do not consult with your partners? I do not 
+know of any system where it would survive without input from groups 
+using the software/hardware. Otherwise, people would simply not use the 
+software that was dictated to them and the politicians would then have 
+to try to rationalize the reasons why they spent the $$$$$ for software 
+that nobody uses. There must be a consultative process otherwise your 
+educational system would have complained for sure.
+
+In Canada, and in my province of Ontario, we are even mandated to get 
+input from our students. We all have a say. That is not to say that 
+there is no political involvement, but even so, voices of all ages are 
+heard and reported back to the people in charge of planning and purchases.
+
+Marc
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000701.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000701.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..c9b762748 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000701.html @@ -0,0 +1,70 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Identifying Target Markets + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Identifying Target Markets

+ Tux99 + tux99-mga at uridium.org +
+ Sun Oct 3 11:04:25 CEST 2010 +

+
+ +
+
+Quote: marc wrote on Sun, 03 October 2010 10:57
+> There must be a consultative process otherwise your 
+> educational system would have complained for sure.
+> 
+
+Germans are used to not question authorities, so this is not strange.
+Different country, different mentality, that's why talking abut global
+PR/marketing strategies makes little sense.
+
+So many global corporations had to learn this the hard way.
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000702.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000702.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..29ab914ee --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000702.html @@ -0,0 +1,87 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Identifying Target Markets + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Identifying Target Markets

+ Wolfgang Bornath + molch.b at googlemail.com +
+ Sun Oct 3 11:10:49 CEST 2010 +

+
+ +
2010/10/3 Marc Paré <marc at marcpare.com>:
+>
+> It is strange that parents, teachers and even students would not have a say.
+> How can there be an acquisition and amortization period for your software
+> programmes if you do not consult with your partners?
+
+Schools and parents and students are not partners for the politicians.
+The problem is, high level MS reps (even Mr. Gates did) visit the MP
+(like the governor of a US state) and talks with him. Then the
+contracts are signed and the whole hierarchy downwards has to act
+according to those contracts. Schools and students and parents are at
+the bottom of that hierarchy.
+
+Who said we do have an education problem?
+
+> the politicians would then have to try to
+> rationalize the reasons why they spent the $$$$$ for software that nobody
+> uses. There must be a consultative process otherwise your educational system
+> would have complained for sure.
+
+They do complain, so what? The politicians have their opinions and
+they act upon that. If the people's annoyance level is high enough the
+people will show it at next elections. But whoever they vote for, they
+are jsut the same.
+
+Sorry, I did not want to get into politics, it's just that over here
+all education is ruled by the verious states of our federal republic.
+
+wobo
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000703.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000703.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..1fd7992e9 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000703.html @@ -0,0 +1,76 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Identifying Target Markets + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Identifying Target Markets

+ Wolfgang Bornath + molch.b at googlemail.com +
+ Sun Oct 3 11:20:09 CEST 2010 +

+
+ +
2010/10/3 Tux99 <tux99-mga at uridium.org>:
+>
+> Germans are used to not question authorities, so this is not strange.
+> Different country, different mentality, that's why talking abut global
+> PR/marketing strategies makes little sense.
+>
+> So many global corporations had to learn this the hard way.
+
+Germany is only one example among others.
+
+But I just remember this theory that at the end of the day you can
+apply market strategies worldwide only with small adjustments. That's
+crap. I know somebody in the marketing dep of a large supplier fo baby
+food. They deliver to more than 25 countries in Europe and Middle East
+- you know what? They had to implement 8 totally different marketing
+strategies for those 25 countries becaus of totally different mind
+sets, cultures, religions, family structures, etc.
+
+In general: I do not agree to a specialized marketing strategy with a
+comparatively small target group.
+
+ + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000704.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000704.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..07764fbab --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000704.html @@ -0,0 +1,86 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Identifying Target Markets + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Identifying Target Markets

+ Marc Paré + marc at marcpare.com +
+ Sun Oct 3 11:36:25 CEST 2010 +

+
+ +
Le 2010-10-03 05:20, Wolfgang Bornath a écrit :
+> 2010/10/3 Tux99<tux99-mga at uridium.org>:
+>>
+>> Germans are used to not question authorities, so this is not strange.
+>> Different country, different mentality, that's why talking abut global
+>> PR/marketing strategies makes little sense.
+>>
+>> So many global corporations had to learn this the hard way.
+>
+> Germany is only one example among others.
+>
+> But I just remember this theory that at the end of the day you can
+> apply market strategies worldwide only with small adjustments. That's
+> crap. I know somebody in the marketing dep of a large supplier fo baby
+> food. They deliver to more than 25 countries in Europe and Middle East
+> - you know what? They had to implement 8 totally different marketing
+> strategies for those 25 countries becaus of totally different mind
+> sets, cultures, religions, family structures, etc.
+>
+> In general: I do not agree to a specialized marketing strategy with a
+> comparatively small target group.
+>
+
+I don't believe that anyone is talking about having a global strategy 
+for Mageia. The subject line does say "Identifying Target Markets". I 
+believe the intent was to focus on some groups where there was a 
+possibility of expanding the usage of Mageia. Adapting to regional 
+differences would then make part of the target strategy.
+
+Marc
+
+
+ + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000705.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000705.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..336991241 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000705.html @@ -0,0 +1,72 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Bootloader ? + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Bootloader ?

+ André Salaün + andresalaun at aliceadsl.fr +
+ Sun Oct 3 11:43:40 CEST 2010 +

+
+ +
What about bootloader choice?
+Grub2 or Grub ?
+Do you know decison of grub2 developpers about installing it on partition boot sector, not only on  mbr ?
+I don't agree with that "no choice" position, it remenbers me some others OS... and no choice no liberty, incompatible with Gnu-Linux imho.
+
+
+-- 
+A.Salaün
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000706.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000706.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..906387152 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000706.html @@ -0,0 +1,100 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Identifying Target Markets + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Identifying Target Markets

+ Marc Paré + marc at marcpare.com +
+ Sun Oct 3 11:40:22 CEST 2010 +

+
+ +
Le 2010-10-03 05:10, Wolfgang Bornath a écrit :
+> 2010/10/3 Marc Paré<marc at marcpare.com>:
+>>
+>> It is strange that parents, teachers and even students would not have a say.
+>> How can there be an acquisition and amortization period for your software
+>> programmes if you do not consult with your partners?
+>
+> Schools and parents and students are not partners for the politicians.
+> The problem is, high level MS reps (even Mr. Gates did) visit the MP
+> (like the governor of a US state) and talks with him. Then the
+> contracts are signed and the whole hierarchy downwards has to act
+> according to those contracts. Schools and students and parents are at
+> the bottom of that hierarchy.
+>
+> Who said we do have an education problem?
+
+I am not sure, I certainly did not say that there was a problem. You 
+seem to be comfortable enough with it, and I don't have a problem with that.
+
+>
+>> the politicians would then have to try to
+>> rationalize the reasons why they spent the $$$$$ for software that nobody
+>> uses. There must be a consultative process otherwise your educational system
+>> would have complained for sure.
+>
+> They do complain, so what? The politicians have their opinions and
+> they act upon that. If the people's annoyance level is high enough the
+> people will show it at next elections. But whoever they vote for, they
+> are jsut the same.
+>
+> Sorry, I did not want to get into politics, it's just that over here
+> all education is ruled by the verious states of our federal republic.
+>
+> wobo
+>
+
+This is not talking about politics. If you were not informing us of the 
+decision process, then we would not know. You are in fact informing us 
+how to better target groups in the educational sector in Germany.
+
+Cheers
+
+Marc
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000707.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000707.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..995871231 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000707.html @@ -0,0 +1,67 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Bootloader ? + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Bootloader ?

+ Tux99 + tux99-mga at uridium.org +
+ Sun Oct 3 11:46:54 CEST 2010 +

+
+ +
+
+AFAIK grub2 is still too problematic in many cases, but if it's possible to
+offer it as (not default) alternative, then why not?
+It's always best to give the user as much choice as possible, while at the
+same time pre-selecting reasonable defaults.
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000708.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000708.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..31b3431d3 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000708.html @@ -0,0 +1,72 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Identifying Target Markets + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Identifying Target Markets

+ Wolfgang Bornath + molch.b at googlemail.com +
+ Sun Oct 3 11:53:44 CEST 2010 +

+
+ +
2010/10/3 Marc Paré <marc at marcpare.com>:
+> Le 2010-10-03 05:10, Wolfgang Bornath a écrit :
+>>
+>> Who said we do have an education problem?
+>
+> I am not sure, I certainly did not say that there was a problem. You seem to
+> be comfortable enough with it, and I don't have a problem with that.
+
+LOL! No, I'm not comfortable with that! That sentencs was a poor
+attempt on being sarcastic!
+We DO have an education system problem, there is a drifference in
+education based on which state of Germany you went to school, there
+are students and parents demonstrating on the streets, there is a
+growing number of private schools (which were very rare in Germany
+only 20 years ago), only open for parents with money, etc.
+
+OMG, I get carried away on this topic....
+
+ + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000709.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000709.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..f43aab715 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000709.html @@ -0,0 +1,71 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Bootloader ? + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Bootloader ?

+ Wolfgang Bornath + molch.b at googlemail.com +
+ Sun Oct 3 11:58:46 CEST 2010 +

+
+ +
2010/10/3 André Salaün <andresalaun at aliceadsl.fr>:
+> What about bootloader choice?
+> Grub2 or Grub ?
+
+AFAIR the cooker discussion came to a "yes-yes" result.
+"Yes", we will keep grub as default.
+"Yes", we will offer Grub2 as an option.
+
+It's the reasonable thing to do, IMHO Grub2 still has flaws which make
+it not suited as default BL.
+
+wobo
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000710.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000710.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..2d7a71564 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000710.html @@ -0,0 +1,78 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] About Mandriva tools future : Host Mandriva tools on github + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] About Mandriva tools future : Host Mandriva tools on github

+ Tux99 + tux99-mga at uridium.org +
+ Sun Oct 3 12:12:06 CEST 2010 +

+
+ +
+
+Quote: Dimitrios Glentadakis wrote on Sun, 03 October 2010 10:18
+>
+> An old but interresting about interview for Mandriva's tools in perl:
+> http://www.perl.com/pub/2005/02/24/mandrakelinux.html
+
+Thanks for posting this that interview is very interesting.
+It would be great if we could have Rafael Garcia-Suarez contributing to
+Mageia.
+Does anyone know what he does these days?
+
+This quote is particularly interesting:
+
+"Rafael: Not all tools were always written in Perl. However using
+consistently a same language allows to share and reuse libraries across
+all tools, be it the perl/rpmlib bindings or custom graphical toolboxes.
+Thus, for example, the OS installer shares code with urpmi and rpmdrake. A
+scripting language was preferred because of rapidity of development and
+ease of debug -- attempts at writing rpmdrake in C were painful, although
+that was before I was hired by Mandrakesoft. Perl was a natural choice
+since there were already very good in-house skills for it."
+
+ + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000711.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000711.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..0cb1d95fc --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000711.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Bootloader ? + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Bootloader ?

+ André Salaün + andresalaun at aliceadsl.fr +
+ Sun Oct 3 12:22:02 CEST 2010 +

+
+ +
Le Sun, 3 Oct 2010 11:58:46 +0200
+Wolfgang Bornath <molch.b at googlemail.com> a écrit:
+
+> 2010/10/3 André Salaün <andresalaun at aliceadsl.fr>:
+> > What about bootloader choice?
+> > Grub2 or Grub ?
+> 
+> AFAIR the cooker discussion came to a "yes-yes" result.
+> "Yes", we will keep grub as default.
+> "Yes", we will offer Grub2 as an option.
+> 
+> It's the reasonable thing to do, IMHO Grub2 still has flaws which make
+> it not suited as default BL.
+> 
+> wobo
+
+You know what ? I'm happy.
+;-) 
+
+-- 
+A.Salaün
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000712.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000712.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..476a33f0e --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000712.html @@ -0,0 +1,95 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Bootloader ? + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Bootloader ?

+ Anne nicolas + ennael1 at gmail.com +
+ Sun Oct 3 12:29:53 CEST 2010 +

+
+ +
2010/10/3 André Salaün <andresalaun at aliceadsl.fr>:
+> Le Sun, 3 Oct 2010 11:58:46 +0200
+> Wolfgang Bornath <molch.b at googlemail.com> a écrit:
+>
+>> 2010/10/3 André Salaün <andresalaun at aliceadsl.fr>:
+>> > What about bootloader choice?
+>> > Grub2 or Grub ?
+>>
+>> AFAIR the cooker discussion came to a "yes-yes" result.
+>> "Yes", we will keep grub as default.
+>> "Yes", we will offer Grub2 as an option.
+>>
+>> It's the reasonable thing to do, IMHO Grub2 still has flaws which make
+>> it not suited as default BL.
+>>
+>> wobo
+>
+> You know what ? I'm happy.
+> ;-)
+
+Indeed we spoke with syslinux team some weeks ago and issues are still
+there with GRUB2. So safest way  will be to stick with GRUB and
+provide GRUB2 as alternative for advanced users
+
+>
+> --
+> A.Salaün
+>
+>
+>
+>
+
+
+
+-- 
+http://www.mageia.org
+Anne
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000713.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000713.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..23caf927c --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000713.html @@ -0,0 +1,69 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Bootloader ? + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Bootloader ?

+ Tux99 + tux99-mga at uridium.org +
+ Sun Oct 3 12:32:57 CEST 2010 +

+
+ +
+
+Quote: Anne nicolas wrote on Sun, 03 October 2010 12:29
+> So safest way  will be to stick with GRUB and
+> provide GRUB2 as alternative for advanced users
+
+And please also keep LILO as a choice, since there are older PCs where only
+LILO works, not grub.
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000714.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000714.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..8ed695f3c --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000714.html @@ -0,0 +1,71 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] About Mandriva tools future : Host Mandriva tools on github + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] About Mandriva tools future : Host Mandriva tools on github

+ Dick Gevers + dvgevers at xs4all.nl +
+ Sun Oct 3 13:05:45 CEST 2010 +

+
+ +
On Sun,  3 Oct 2010 12:12:06 +0200 (CEST), Tux99 wrote about Re:
+[Mageia-dev] About Mandriva tools future : Host Mandriva tools on github:
+
+>It would be great if we could have Rafael Garcia-Suarez contributing to
+>Mageia.
+
+If that is a good idea (I'm not saying it isn't!), than I can think of some
+other names: Pixel, Guillaume Cottenceau etc. etc.
+
+But if they have any interest in Linux they will soon enough learn about
+Mageia and find their way here if they care to....
+
+Ciao,
+=Dick Gevers=
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000715.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000715.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..3cc535981 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000715.html @@ -0,0 +1,79 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Bootloader ? + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Bootloader ?

+ Michael Scherer + misc at zarb.org +
+ Sun Oct 3 12:25:35 CEST 2010 +

+
+ +
Le dimanche 03 octobre 2010 à 11:58 +0200, Wolfgang Bornath a écrit :
+> 2010/10/3 André Salaün <andresalaun at aliceadsl.fr>:
+> > What about bootloader choice?
+> > Grub2 or Grub ?
+> 
+> AFAIR the cooker discussion came to a "yes-yes" result.
+> "Yes", we will keep grub as default.
+> "Yes", we will offer Grub2 as an option.
+> 
+> It's the reasonable thing to do, IMHO Grub2 still has flaws which make
+> it not suited as default BL.
+
+what flaw ?
+
+the new grub 1.99 can read the old menu.lst format, so to me, that was
+the sole reason to not provides it as a upgrade.
+
+
+-- 
+Michael Scherer
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000716.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000716.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..78f4cce6a --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000716.html @@ -0,0 +1,65 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Bootloader ? + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Bootloader ?

+ Wolfgang Bornath + molch.b at googlemail.com +
+ Sun Oct 3 13:20:40 CEST 2010 +

+
+ +
2010/10/3 Michael Scherer <misc at zarb.org>:
+>
+> what flaw ?
+>
+
+I'm referring to the cooker discussion, I did not test myself. So I
+shoud have written "I heard that it has flaws". Sorry.
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000717.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000717.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..c1fc57757 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000717.html @@ -0,0 +1,67 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Bootloader ? + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Bootloader ?

+ Maarten Vanraes + maarten.vanraes at gmail.com +
+ Sun Oct 3 13:25:23 CEST 2010 +

+
+ +
Op zondag 03 oktober 2010 11:43:40 schreef André Salaün:
+> What about bootloader choice?
+> Grub2 or Grub ?
+> Do you know decison of grub2 developpers about installing it on partition
+> boot sector, not only on  mbr ? I don't agree with that "no choice"
+> position, it remenbers me some others OS... and no choice no liberty,
+> incompatible with Gnu-Linux imho.
+
+afaik, grub2 didn't work yet with gfxboot
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000718.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000718.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..ed5d25fb5 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000718.html @@ -0,0 +1,70 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Epoll need translation + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Epoll need translation

+ Oliver Burger + oliver.bgr at googlemail.com +
+ Sun Oct 3 14:22:00 CEST 2010 +

+
+ +
Olivier Thauvin <nanardon at nanardon.zarb.org> schrieb am 2010-10-02
+> As consequence of this, Epoll has been mostly written in... French
+> (sorry :).
+>
+I think, first of all, we need the software in English. Then the different 
+language teams can start translating and prrofreading. I wouldn't want to 
+dictate the way this is done to those teams. They have to do the work and they 
+should decide how to do it. After all, the translation teams are very small 
+(mostly less then 10 people per language) and they have to find a workflow they 
+are comfortable with.
+
+Oliver
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000789.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000789.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..8f9de79eb --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000789.html @@ -0,0 +1,123 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] About Mandriva tools future : Host Mandriva tools on github + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] About Mandriva tools future : Host Mandriva tools on github

+ Ahmad Samir + ahmadsamir3891 at gmail.com +
+ Sun Oct 3 15:35:55 CEST 2010 +

+
+ +
On 3 October 2010 09:58, Fabrice Facorat <fabrice.facorat at gmail.com> wrote:
+> 2010/10/2 Ahmad Samir <ahmadsamir3891 at gmail.com>:
+>> On 2 October 2010 21:50, Fabrice Facorat <fabrice.facorat at gmail.com> wrote:
+>>> Le 2 octobre 2010 17:52, Nicolas Lécureuil <neoclust.mageia at gmail.com> a écrit :
+>>>>
+>>>>
+>>>> 2010/10/2 Fabrice Facorat <fabrice.facorat at gmail.com>
+>>>>>
+>>>>> 2010/10/1 Sinner from the Prairy <sinnerbofh at gmail.com>:
+>>>>> > Fabrice Facorat wrote:
+>>>
+>>>>> > Mandriva tries that, with look'n'feel consistent on MCC, KDE and Gnome.
+>>>>> > draketools work on TUI or GUI. They work well.
+>>>>>
+>>>>> some tools does not work correctly however and are buggy
+>>>>>
+>>>>
+>>>> Better  is to fix them instead of rewrite all.
+>>>
+>>> you know, when something have been broken for more than 2 years ... at
+>>> some point you may think that the best would be to just change it ;-)
+>>>
+>>>
+>>>
+>>> --
+>>> Close the World, Open the Net
+>>> http://www.linux-wizard.net
+>>>
+>>
+>> Specifying what exactly is wrong is an essential issue here:
+>> - Just "perl is hard to understand" isn't a problem for users, users
+>> don't code it.
+>
+> but for dev and potential contributor this increase the antry barrier
+> for contribution
+>
+>> - Not being used by other distros is again not a problem, each distro
+>> has native tools that no other distros use (as misc said a couple of
+>> emails up)
+>
+> sure. But do Mandriva still have enough man power to maintain so many tools ?
+>
+
+(Who's talking about Mandriva?)
+
+About man power, if a distro doesn't have enough man power to maintain
+so many tool, do you think it'll have enough man power to port them to
+another language so that others can contribute / "lower the entry
+barrier"? or even integrate other tools in the distro?
+
+>> So, no, I wouldn't throw my old box out the window because if it works
+>> even if it's slow, until I buy a new box / can afford a new box.
+>> drakxtools work, until a viable alternative, if needed at all, is
+>> provided they should be kept.
+>
+> I do say that we should do a complete analysis of all the mandriva
+> tools ( drakxtools, drakwizard, ... ), and have the decision on a
+> per-tool basis
+>
+> --
+> Close the World, Open the Net
+> http://www.linux-wizard.net
+>
+
+Sure. (Do you proposed to participate in that evaluation?).
+
+-- 
+Ahmad Samir
+
+ + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000790.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000790.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..67dafdad8 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000790.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Bootloader ? + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Bootloader ?

+ Dick Gevers + dvgevers at xs4all.nl +
+ Sun Oct 3 15:38:13 CEST 2010 +

+
+ +
On Sun,  3 Oct 2010 12:32:57 +0200 (CEST), Tux99 wrote about Re:
+[Mageia-dev] Bootloader ?:
+
+>And please also keep LILO as a choice, since there are older PCs where only
+>LILO works, not grub.
+
+Perhaps it helps knowing that grub may still work via a bootable cd. Please
+compare: http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/Docs/SysAdmin/Config/MakeBootCD
+
+But other than that, I need LILO too.
+
+Ciao,
+=Dick Gevers=
+
+ + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000800.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000800.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..11acfc97f --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/000800.html @@ -0,0 +1,86 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Talk of Browsers + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Talk of Browsers

+ Richard Walker + richard.j.walker at ntlworld.com +
+ Sun Oct 3 20:19:09 CEST 2010 +

+
+ +
+
+But are we always knowledgeable enough to be able to set up the system to
+use our choice?
+
+I confess to being a Mandriva Linux user for only 10 years but I have been
+an Opera user (and purchaser) for a year or two before that. I ALWAYS have
+difficulty when removing Firefox and replacing it with Opera as I can NEVER
+find all of the nooks and crannies of the system and various software
+packages which presume that Firefox must be available.
+
+I would be much happier to discover that a distribution had taken my
+choices seriously enough to check with me during the install and then make
+sure that my choice is properly and fully integrated. 
+
+Then perhaps we could highlight applications which expect no other browser
+than Firefox and proceed to educate their authors/packagers as to the
+importance of user choices.
+
+>
+> Majority of users do not want choice.
+>
+
+OK, that may be true, but when one of that majority decides to broaden the
+horizons of their browsing experience then will they magically be learned
+enough to be able to fix all of the integration issues for themselves? I
+suspect not.
+
+An install time selector screen and supporting scripts would be a very good
+starting point for a "Change Default Browser" wizard, much as XFDrake tries
+to hide the complexities of switching video drivers. 
+
+Richard
+
+ + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/author.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/author.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..207436619 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101003/author.html @@ -0,0 +1,222 @@ + + + + The Mageia-dev 3 October 2010 Archive by author + + + + + +

3 October 2010 Archives by author

+ +

Starting: Sun Oct 3 07:17:08 CEST 2010
+ Ending: Sun Oct 3 20:19:09 CEST 2010
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+

+

+ Last message date: + Sun Oct 3 20:19:09 CEST 2010
+ Archived on: Mon Oct 4 13:48:00 CEST 2010 +

+

+

+

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3 October 2010 Archives by date

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+ +

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