[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?

Sun Sep 26 15:01:25 CEST 2010

Giuseppe Ghibò skrev 26.9.2010 15:25:
+> 2010/9/26 Thomas Backlund <tmb at iki.fi <mailto:tmb at iki.fi>>
+>
+>     Giuseppe Ghibò skrev 26.9.2010 02:09:
+>
+>
+>         Not exactly. I'm not talking in just using -march=<something> but in
+>         also pushing -mfpmath=sse -msse (and maybe -msse2) , which should be
+>         much more than JUST 1-2% (1-2% is usually the benchmark
+>         tolerance)...
+>
+>
+>     Well, here is a simple fact.
+>
+>     Yes, going for i686 + SSE2 would/could give some benefits,
+>
+>     BUT
+>
+>     It would close support for all theese:
+>     - Intel i586 (all)
+>
+>     - Intel Pentium Pro
+>     - Intel Pentium II
+>     - Intel Pentium III (Including some Pentium D)
+>     - 32-bit AMD Athlon
+>     - AMD Geode
+>     - VIA C3
+>     - Transmeta Crusoe
+>
+>     So, thats not an option.
+>
+>
+> As I said I would see someone with such hardware, taking a CD of latest
+> MDV or cooker and try to install to do something and do a report.
+>
+
+No point in trying the Cooker installer, as its currently broken.
+
+Last time I tried (around 2010.0), I had no problem using the textmode 
+installer, wich is the most lightway method of installing we have.
+
+> That  reminds me also one suggestion. If someone has old hardware that
+> not in use anymore then could be donated to who is willing to test the
+> latest MDV|Mageia on it.
+
+I will next week, as I still think we have some old i586 stored at work...
+
+> It's not ironic (I think this is a
+> brainstorming), or I'm not kidding, but there could be an wiki hardware
+> section for that. For old hardware schools and institutes or
+> corporations have even to pay for dismantling:  such hardware is usually
+> recycled for:
+>
+>    a) extracting gold (there are nowadays new chemical processes that
+> found more affordable to extract gold from old PCs than from mines)
+>    b) avoid pollutions with the lead, plastics they contain, if thrown
+> in the dumpster etc. (note there isn't just the CPU, but also CRT
+> monitors, printers, disks, etc.)
+>
+
+     c) keep donating the old harware to schools that take anything
+        they can get (so no dismantling).
+
+
+> IIRC there is a EU law that if you buy a new PC the vendor is obeyed to
+> retire the old one and take care for the dismantling.
+>
+
+Nope.
+But there is a "recycling fee" in the price of new hw, so should be able 
+to get tid of old hw without any cost...
+
+>
+>
+>     Now what about only i686 + SSE then?
+>     It would still close support for all theese:
+>     - Intel i586 (all)
+>     - Some Intel Pentium D
+>     - 32-bit AMD Athlon < XP/MP
+>     - AMD Geode < NX
+>     - VIA C3 (Samuel* and Ezra)
+>     - Transmeta Crusoe
+>
+>     So, still not an option.
+>
+>
+>     Now what about only i686 then?
+>     It would still close support for all theese:
+>     - Intel i586 (all)
+>     - Some Intel Pentium D
+>     - AMD Geode < NX
+>     - VIA C3 (Samuel* and Ezra)
+>     - Transmeta Crusoe
+>
+>     So, still not an option.
+>
+>
+>     And then to point out some other facts:
+>
+>     Some of the benefits are already accounted for like you noted earlier:
+>
+>     "Of course we shouldn't forget that the MDV had already a system for
+>     providing optimized (look at /usr/lib/sse2 for instance) version of
+>     libraries according to instruction set supported."
+>
+>     And many applications capable of utilizing sse2 and other
+>     instruction sets already have runtime detection support, so no
+>     problem there.
+>
+>
+>     So, where does that leave us?
+>
+>     Simple.
+>     For 32bit installs, we will still support i586 as base.
+>     For 64bit installs, it's simple as x86_64 is SSE2 by default.
+>
+>
+>     Now, _if_ the Mageia community gets enough developers to think of
+>     _and_ support a "light netbook/legacy edition", then maybe we can
+>     think of doing a i586/i686 split, but for now we will use i586 as base.
+>
+>
+>     And many of the users wanting i686/sse2 already have hardware
+>     capable of running x86_64, so that's what they should do, as there
+>     is where the future is.
+>
+>
+> You are forgetting a midrange. Which is the midrange of not the latest
+> hardware but a memory around 2-4GB RAM. In that set a 32bit OS is still
+> consuming 30-50% fewer memory than 64bit.
+
+I'm not forgetting them...
+The current i586 base supports them
+We also provide i686 kernels for them (desktop and server)
+We have the "/usr/lib/sse2" and "apps with runtime detection support" 
+mentioned above.
+
+> As I said to complete the circle it is needed to provide on a per
+> --target|dialect .rpm package for the kernel as well as for the glibc.
+> We have just to ensure the targets and fix compilation errors (though
+> that wouldn't resolve the problem of bloatware distro).
+>
+
+--
+Thomas
+