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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002925.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002925.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..0f8ac8d8a --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002925.html @@ -0,0 +1,107 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20ISO&In-Reply-To=%3C20101106090436.32f3a01a%40otfordduckscomputers.co.uk%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002933.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO</H1> + <B>Margot</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20ISO&In-Reply-To=%3C20101106090436.32f3a01a%40otfordduckscomputers.co.uk%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO">margot at otfordduckscomputers.co.uk + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Nov 6 10:04:36 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002933.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2925">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2925">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2925">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2925">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 16:24:11 -0400 +Marc Paré <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">marc at marcpare.com</A>> wrote: + +><i> Le 2010-11-04 22:12, andre999 a écrit : +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Even bugfixes often have errors. Many times I've seen bugfixes +</I>><i> > of bugfixes, and sometimes bugfixes of bugfixes of bugfixes. +</I>><i> > (If you read the description.) +</I>><i> > If we go for incremental rpms (very much smaller), the only +</I>><i> > advantage I see is for those without Internet connexion. +</I>><i> > In that case, they wouldn't likely be vulnerable to security +</I>><i> > problems. So that leaves (other) bugfixes. +</I>><i> > This is something that I think, for the time being at least, +</I>><i> > can be best adressed on an individual or local community basis. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > - André +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Therefore, for a Mageia Community to supply an ISO to a member +</I>><i> who has dial-up services but is seeking help from the community +</I>><i> for an ISO download. Options would be: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> * provide user with ISO from Mageia without any updates +</I>><i> +</I>><i> * provide a user with ISO from Mageia with incremental updates +</I>><i> +</I>><i> * provide a user with ISO from Mageia with all updates +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Obviously, the two last options are not available from Mageia as +</I>><i> this is what this thread was all about. Unless there were built +</I>><i> ISO's at the Mageia download site. The main concerns really are +</I>><i> the amount of disk space on Mageia servers and mirrors. But these +</I>><i> last two ISO's could be built somehow if the server space could +</I>><i> be accommodated and also if there was dev interest in doing these +</I>><i> ISOs. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Marc +</I>><i> +</I> +You missed my suggestion - provide 2 discs, one with the original +(thoroughly tested) release ISO, and a second disc with the latest +set of updates. + +-- +Margot +~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ +**Otford Ducks Computers** +We teach, you learn... +...and, if you don't do your homework, we set the cat on you! +~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ +</PRE> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002933.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2925">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2925">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2925">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2925">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002926.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002926.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..a722be25f --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002926.html @@ -0,0 +1,125 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20ISO&In-Reply-To=%3C20101106090834.539f763b%40otfordduckscomputers.co.uk%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002934.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002927.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO</H1> + <B>Margot</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20ISO&In-Reply-To=%3C20101106090834.539f763b%40otfordduckscomputers.co.uk%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO">margot at otfordduckscomputers.co.uk + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Nov 6 10:08:34 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002934.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002927.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2926">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2926">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2926">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2926">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 16:35:06 -0400 +Marc Paré <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">marc at marcpare.com</A>> wrote: + +><i> Le 2010-11-05 10:01, Juergen Harms a écrit : +</I>><i> > On 11/05/2010 06:55 AM, andre999 wrote: +</I>><i> >> I would make all delta updates relative to the distro release, +</I>><i> >> i.e. +</I>><i> >> - main = foo-1 +</I>><i> >> - upd_full = foo-2, foo-3, foo-4, etc +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > I have a feeling that just distributing snapshots of the update +</I>><i> > repositories (they are relative the release) is a wise thing to +</I>><i> > start with. That is simple, does not require new software and +</I>><i> > is easy to put in place. If Mageia wants to go further, it +</I>><i> > might be a good step to learn from (how much is it used, what +</I>><i> > has a tendency to go wrong, do people have difficutlies ...) +</I>><i> > and base furthers steps upon. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Re risk - updates have a certain risk that an update introduces +</I>><i> > problems, you cant get away from that, however the packages are +</I>><i> > distributed. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > One thought based on dealing with risks and being selective with +</I>><i> > introducing updates: how about adding to a DVD with update +</I>><i> > packages also a structure (plain file ?) with the +</I>><i> > corresonponding security advisories? This entire discusion is +</I>><i> > on making life easy for users with bad connectivity - they +</I>><i> > might like to avoid fetching advisories over the net also. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > But I really think that some learning is necessary. How many +</I>><i> > users will need such a facility? how much investment is +</I>><i> > justified in creating the facility? +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I think it's more of how much have people become accustomed to +</I>><i> having their dial-up connections tied up for hours for an ISO +</I>><i> download and then updates. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I am on two projects, Mageia and LibreOffice, and on both I have +</I>><i> read from people who were hoping to be heard that they only have +</I>><i> dial-up and could this please be considered. I think that dial-up +</I>><i> connections are more prevalent than we think. We "high speed" +</I>><i> internet users seem to lose sight that some of our market targets +</I>><i> are dial-up service members. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I don't know if they would use any of these services. They may +</I>><i> have become so accustomed to tying up their phone lines for long +</I>><i> periods of time, that they may not even care any more even if +</I>><i> Community services were available. It may mean a matter of their +</I>><i> local Mageia Community advertising the fact that these service +</I>><i> are available. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Marc +</I>><i> +</I> +It's not just dial-up - many people in the UK only have mobile +broadband, which is very expensive if you exceed the minimal +bandwidth allowance (for some contracts, only 1GB a month). For some +of those people, downloading a DVD-sized ISO would be impossible. + +-- +Margot +~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ +**Otford Ducks Computers** +We teach, you learn... +...and, if you don't do your homework, we set the cat on you! +~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ +</PRE> + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002934.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002927.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2926">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2926">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2926">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2926">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002927.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002927.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..1bee56b36 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002927.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20ISO&In-Reply-To=%3C201011060729.43753.renaud%40olgiati-in-paraguay.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002926.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002928.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO</H1> + <B>Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20ISO&In-Reply-To=%3C201011060729.43753.renaud%40olgiati-in-paraguay.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO">renaud at olgiati-in-paraguay.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Nov 6 11:29:43 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002926.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002928.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2927">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2927">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2927">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2927">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Saturday 06 November 2010, my mailbox was graced by a missive + from Margot <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">margot at otfordduckscomputers.co.uk</A>> who wrote: + +><i> It's not just dial-up - many people in the UK only have mobile +</I>><i> broadband, which is very expensive if you exceed the minimal +</I>><i> bandwidth allowance (for some contracts, only 1GB a month). For some +</I>><i> of those people, downloading a DVD-sized ISO would be impossible. +</I> +I understand bending backward to help those people in backward countries who +cannot download, but should we be bothered with those, in the first world, who +are too stingy to get a proper Internet connection ? + +Cheers, + +Ron, on the banks of the Paraguay river. +-- + A: Because it breaks the logical sequence of the discussion. + Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? + A: Top-posting. + Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? + + + -- <A HREF="http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org">http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org</A> -- + +</PRE> + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002926.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002928.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2927">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2927">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2927">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2927">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002928.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002928.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..7c1575b3c --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002928.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20ISO&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimSZD5kWwuMyooHgx3VgSOfLhxT%3D1rH2bAHXtfb%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002927.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002935.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO</H1> + <B>Wolfgang Bornath</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20ISO&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimSZD5kWwuMyooHgx3VgSOfLhxT%3D1rH2bAHXtfb%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO">molch.b at googlemail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Nov 6 11:56:48 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002927.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002935.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2928">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2928">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2928">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2928">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>2010/11/6 Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">renaud at olgiati-in-paraguay.org</A>>: +><i> +</I>><i> I understand bending backward to help those people in backward countries who +</I>><i> cannot download, but should we be bothered with those, in the first world, who +</I>><i> are too stingy to get a proper Internet connection ? +</I> +What is such a question supposed to be? +I do not see any difference between backward or forward countries, I +only see users with large bandwidth and such with small bandwidth. You +may never heard about it but there are large regions in the so-called +"First World" which are not yet connected to the internet in a proper +way (I know regions in Germany where you are lucky to have a dial-up +connection). As I learned there are also regions in the US which are +as far industrialized as your favourite "backward country". + +Then there is the cost of fast connections - not everybody has the +money to pay for 6MBit lines in countries where such connections are +expensive. And not everybody can put internet costs on top of his +priority list. + +Yes, we should be bothered with those. +-- +wobo +</PRE> + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002927.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002935.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2928">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2928">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2928">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2928">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002929.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002929.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..cc0dbd1fd --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002929.html @@ -0,0 +1,101 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20ISO&In-Reply-To=%3C4CD551D0.80003%40laposte.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002932.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002930.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO</H1> + <B>Philippe DIDIER</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20ISO&In-Reply-To=%3C4CD551D0.80003%40laposte.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO">philippedidier at laposte.net + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Nov 6 14:02:08 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002932.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002930.html">[Mageia-discuss] Introducing mageia-app-db +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2929">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2929">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2929">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2929">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE> What the F#@§ does allow you to speak of stinginess !!! + +Mandriva 2010.1 : last security update for openoffice (3.2-4.1) : 110 +Moctets + +Slow dialup connection (36kbits/sec max = in fact 25 kbits/sec): +10 hours for downloading it .... and happy when the connection is not +broken ! +They reach half the amount of downloading for one month ! + +That's for friends of mine, in France ! (30 km from my ADSL 6MBytes/sec) + +They might use satellite connection but it has a limited bandwith +allowance and it's a little expensive... +They cannot use mobile broadband : it's a white zone ! + +They are retired : they spent 20 years of their life working for free +for humanitary associations in backward countries, that's the reason +why they couldn't spare money for now. They are really poor, but they +are far from being stringy ... their past life would put some shame on +you saying this ! + Being in the "first world" doesn't always mean being rich ! open your +eyes ! + + +Back to the subject : +I downloaded the rpms from the repo (few seconds) and kept them in a +directory after the update ! +Burned some CDs ! (for those friends, an some in Africa, ) +I know which rpms they installed, and which to keep when there's an +update ! + +I suppose some users would be interested to use Mageia if they knew +there's a way to get CD of updates, and to update from those CD or DVD +instead of using internet connection ! + +GNU-Linux intends to share freely the knowledge, and the way to access +to it... for everyone! + + + +</PRE> + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002932.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002930.html">[Mageia-discuss] Introducing mageia-app-db +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2929">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2929">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2929">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2929">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002930.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002930.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..e8ad6d85b --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002930.html @@ -0,0 +1,96 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Introducing mageia-app-db + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Introducing%20mageia-app-db&In-Reply-To=%3C201011061417.47723.mageia%40delaur.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002929.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002931.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Introducing mageia-app-db</H1> + <B>Jérôme Martin</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Introducing%20mageia-app-db&In-Reply-To=%3C201011061417.47723.mageia%40delaur.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Introducing mageia-app-db">mageia at delaur.net + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Nov 6 14:17:43 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002929.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002931.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2930">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2930">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2930">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2930">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le vendredi 5 novembre 2010, Olivier Thauvin a écrit : +><i> * Michael Scherer (<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">misc at zarb.org</A>) wrote: +</I>><i> > Le jeudi 04 novembre 2010 à 22:34 +0100, Samuel Verschelde a écrit : +</I>><i> > > Sophie is not only a database of Mandriva RPM packages, but a database +</I>><i> > > of RPM-based linux distributions' RPMs. From what I know, sophie is : +</I>><i> > > - scripts that update a huge RPM database +</I>><i> > > - the database in itself +</I>><i> > > - an IRC bot + a web site (sophie.zarb.org) +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > - a giraffe +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > > Olivier Thauvin started to rewrite sophie so that it can provide +</I>><i> > > package informations to other websites or applications. Mageia-app-db +</I>><i> > > will probably get information from sophie's database via XML-RPC or +</I>><i> > > any other means. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Technically, even if Olivier hide it, there is a xml-rpc interface :) +</I>><i> > ( except you can only use it like you use the irc bot so it can be quite +</I>><i> > ugly ) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> A rewrite of sophie is on the way, more focus this time of being +</I>><i> reusable, with real XML-RPC, AJAX and maybe other Web 2.0 technologies. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> And I got mad, I'll link it to facebook so Sophie will be able to have +</I>><i> firends ! :) +</I>Dammed, I have to create a facebook account to be able to become a friend of +Sophie :-) + +Jérôme +-------------- next part -------------- +A non-text attachment was scrubbed... +Name: not available +Type: application/pgp-signature +Size: 198 bytes +Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. +URL: </pipermail/mageia-discuss/attachments/20101106/428a29de/attachment.asc> +</PRE> + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002929.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002931.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2930">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2930">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2930">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2930">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002931.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002931.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..a21fadb8a --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002931.html @@ -0,0 +1,106 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20ISO&In-Reply-To=%3C20101106145317.GA24915%40maude.comedia.it%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002930.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002937.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO</H1> + <B>Luca Berra</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20ISO&In-Reply-To=%3C20101106145317.GA24915%40maude.comedia.it%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO">bluca at vodka.it + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Nov 6 15:53:18 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002930.html">[Mageia-discuss] Introducing mageia-app-db +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002937.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2931">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2931">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2931">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2931">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Wed, Nov 03, 2010 at 08:16:22PM +0100, Olivier Thauvin wrote: +><i>* andre999 (<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">andr55 at laposte.net</A>) wrote: +</I>>><i> Donald Stewart a écrit : +</I>>>><i> On 1 November 2010 10:24, Marc Paré<<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">marc at marcpare.com</A>> wrote: +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>>><i> Le 2010-11-01 06:00, Philippe DIDIER a écrit : +</I>>>>><i> +</I>>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> Using delta rpms would reduce the size of the updates, or has my lack +</I>>>><i> of understanding of delta roms got in the way? +</I>>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Delta rpms, relative to the latest distro release, are long overdue. +</I>>><i> (And not only in the Mandriva world. Also for Mozilla, OpenOffice, etc.) +</I>>><i> Note that for much commercial software, updates are normally delta. +</I>>><i> Such updates are often erroneously called patches. +</I>>><i> This may be partly a limitation of rpm packages, or more the programs +</I>>><i> that install/update such packages. If so, it should be a priority to +</I>>><i> correct this lack. +</I>><i> +</I>><i>The problem of delta rpm is the work need to generated alls delta and +</I>><i>the space need on mirrors to host everything. +</I>><i>We must provide delta for each version to the next one: +</I>><i> +</I>><i>- main foo-1 +</I>><i>- upd foo-2 D: 1->2 +</I>><i> foo-3 D: 2->3 and 1->3 ? +</I>><i> foo-4 D: 3->4 and 1->4, 2->4 ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i>etc... +</I>><i>What if delta 1->4 is bigger than the package itself ? and for 2->4 ? +</I> +As nanar points out delta rpm is a bad design + +a working concept would have been basing all deltas on a specific rpm +(i.e. the one in */release) and bundling entire files. in this case a +patch will grow at most as the original rpm, and you don't care about +keeping incremental diffs. + +L. + + + +-- +Luca Berra -- <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">bluca at vodka.it</A> +</PRE> + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002930.html">[Mageia-discuss] Introducing mageia-app-db +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002937.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2931">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2931">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2931">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2931">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002932.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002932.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..be12be8d9 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002932.html @@ -0,0 +1,84 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20ISO&In-Reply-To=%3Cib3s65%24cr8%241%40dough.gmane.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002935.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002929.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO</H1> + <B>Marc Paré</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20ISO&In-Reply-To=%3Cib3s65%24cr8%241%40dough.gmane.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO">marc at marcpare.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Nov 6 16:28:05 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002935.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002929.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2932">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2932">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2932">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2932">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le 2010-11-06 06:29, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI a écrit : +><i> On Saturday 06 November 2010, my mailbox was graced by a missive +</I>><i> from Margot<<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">margot at otfordduckscomputers.co.uk</A>> who wrote: +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> It's not just dial-up - many people in the UK only have mobile +</I>>><i> broadband, which is very expensive if you exceed the minimal +</I>>><i> bandwidth allowance (for some contracts, only 1GB a month). For some +</I>>><i> of those people, downloading a DVD-sized ISO would be impossible. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I understand bending backward to help those people in backward countries who +</I>><i> cannot download, but should we be bothered with those, in the first world, who +</I>><i> are too stingy to get a proper Internet connection ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Cheers, +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Ron, on the banks of the Paraguay river. +</I> +Hi Renaud: + +I think it's more of a question of availability. Sometimes broadband +hookup are not physically available and dial-up as well. Recent advances +in technology have made mobile hookup available for people in these +regions. This is true for 1st world and Developing Countries. + +Marc + +</PRE> + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002935.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002929.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2932">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2932">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2932">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2932">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002933.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002933.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..aa3232527 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002933.html @@ -0,0 +1,142 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20ISO&In-Reply-To=%3Cib3sj7%24fkt%241%40dough.gmane.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002925.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002934.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO</H1> + <B>Marc Paré</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20ISO&In-Reply-To=%3Cib3sj7%24fkt%241%40dough.gmane.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO">marc at marcpare.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Nov 6 16:35:03 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002925.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002934.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2933">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2933">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2933">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2933">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le 2010-11-06 05:04, Margot a écrit : +><i> On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 16:24:11 -0400 +</I>><i> Marc Paré<<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">marc at marcpare.com</A>> wrote: +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> Le 2010-11-04 22:12, andre999 a écrit : +</I>>><i> +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> Even bugfixes often have errors. Many times I've seen bugfixes +</I>>>><i> of bugfixes, and sometimes bugfixes of bugfixes of bugfixes. +</I>>>><i> (If you read the description.) +</I>>>><i> If we go for incremental rpms (very much smaller), the only +</I>>>><i> advantage I see is for those without Internet connexion. +</I>>>><i> In that case, they wouldn't likely be vulnerable to security +</I>>>><i> problems. So that leaves (other) bugfixes. +</I>>>><i> This is something that I think, for the time being at least, +</I>>>><i> can be best adressed on an individual or local community basis. +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> - André +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Therefore, for a Mageia Community to supply an ISO to a member +</I>>><i> who has dial-up services but is seeking help from the community +</I>>><i> for an ISO download. Options would be: +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> * provide user with ISO from Mageia without any updates +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> * provide a user with ISO from Mageia with incremental updates +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> * provide a user with ISO from Mageia with all updates +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Obviously, the two last options are not available from Mageia as +</I>>><i> this is what this thread was all about. Unless there were built +</I>>><i> ISO's at the Mageia download site. The main concerns really are +</I>>><i> the amount of disk space on Mageia servers and mirrors. But these +</I>>><i> last two ISO's could be built somehow if the server space could +</I>>><i> be accommodated and also if there was dev interest in doing these +</I>>><i> ISOs. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Marc +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> You missed my suggestion - provide 2 discs, one with the original +</I>><i> (thoroughly tested) release ISO, and a second disc with the latest +</I>><i> set of updates. +</I>><i> +</I> +Hi Margot: + +Sorry, I thought that the ISO from Mageia with all updates covered your +suggestion. + +Here is the amended proposal: + +================ + +Therefore, for a Mageia Community to supply an ISO to a member +who has dial-up, mobile services or no internet services but is seeking +help from the community for an ISO disc. Options would be: + +* provide user with ISO from Mageia without any updates + +* provide a user with ISO from Mageia with a supplementary disc +containing all updates + +* provide a user with ISO from Mageia with incremental updates + +* provide a user with ISO from Mageia with all updates + +Obviously, the two last options are not available from Mageia as +this is what this thread was all about. Unless there were built +ISO's at the Mageia download site. The main concerns really are +the amount of disk space on Mageia servers and mirrors. But these +last two ISO's could be built somehow if the server space could +be accommodated and also if there was dev interest in doing these +ISO's. Delta discs at this point do not look like an option. + +================ + + +Marc + + + + + +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002925.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002934.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2933">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2933">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2933">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2933">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002934.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002934.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..aa73951a2 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002934.html @@ -0,0 +1,137 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20ISO&In-Reply-To=%3C4CD59A4A.7020208%40laposte.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002933.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002926.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO</H1> + <B>andre999</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20ISO&In-Reply-To=%3C4CD59A4A.7020208%40laposte.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO">andr55 at laposte.net + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Nov 6 19:11:22 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002933.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002926.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2934">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2934">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2934">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2934">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Margot a écrit : +><i> On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 16:24:11 -0400 +</I>><i> Marc Paré<<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">marc at marcpare.com</A>> wrote: +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> Le 2010-11-04 22:12, andre999 a écrit : +</I>>>><i> Even bugfixes often have errors. Many times I've seen bugfixes +</I>>>><i> of bugfixes, and sometimes bugfixes of bugfixes of bugfixes. +</I>>>><i> (If you read the description.) +</I>>>><i> If we go for incremental rpms (very much smaller), the only +</I>>>><i> advantage I see is for those without Internet connexion. +</I>>>><i> In that case, they wouldn't likely be vulnerable to security +</I>>>><i> problems. So that leaves (other) bugfixes. +</I>>>><i> This is something that I think, for the time being at least, +</I>>>><i> can be best adressed on an individual or local community basis. +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> - André +</I>>>><i> +</I>>><i> Therefore, for a Mageia Community to supply an ISO to a member +</I>>><i> who has dial-up services but is seeking help from the community +</I>>><i> for an ISO download. Options would be: +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> * provide user with ISO from Mageia without any updates +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> * provide a user with ISO from Mageia with incremental updates +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> * provide a user with ISO from Mageia with all updates +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Obviously, the two last options are not available from Mageia as +</I>>><i> this is what this thread was all about. Unless there were built +</I>>><i> ISO's at the Mageia download site. The main concerns really are +</I>>><i> the amount of disk space on Mageia servers and mirrors. But these +</I>>><i> last two ISO's could be built somehow if the server space could +</I>>><i> be accommodated and also if there was dev interest in doing these +</I>>><i> ISOs. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Marc +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> You missed my suggestion - provide 2 discs, one with the original +</I>><i> (thoroughly tested) release ISO, and a second disc with the latest +</I>><i> set of updates. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>Right. The best solution. + +To reiterate, the suggestion was that the second disc would contain +packages of the update repositories, to be made by communities - or +individuals - as needed, for users with no or limited internet access. +The advantage being that since updates are considerably smaller than +official packages, it would take a lot less time/effort than making a +much larger ISO updating an official ISO. + +Note that the update repositories remove outdated updates. + +Further thoughts : + +It would also be useful to have a utility to assist making such an +update disc, downloading the current contents of update repositories, etc. +Ideally the utility would (at least have the default option to) only +include updates for packages on the official ISO, making it much smaller. + +Local communities could even keep a local copy of update repositories, +to facilitate quickly making update discs. + +For the user, installation would be a 2 or 3 step process : +1) Install the official ISO + +2) Install the update ISO, a much quicker process than (1). + +3) If the user has limited Internet access, update on line, to ensure +that one has the latest updates, a much quicker process than (2). +If the update ISO is recent enough, there will be no updates in this step. + +Currently, installation should include steps (1) and (3). + +So essentially, there is no (significant) disadvantage for the user to +have a separate update ISO. +Also note that this approach does not change the storage space needed in +mirrors, as these update discs, made from the contents of update +repositories, would not themselves be in repository. For good reason : +the contents of the update repositories change on a daily basis. + +- André +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002933.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002926.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2934">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2934">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2934">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2934">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002935.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002935.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..63f4ca38f --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002935.html @@ -0,0 +1,101 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20ISO&In-Reply-To=%3C4CD5A130.3010002%40laposte.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002928.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002932.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO</H1> + <B>andre999</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20ISO&In-Reply-To=%3C4CD5A130.3010002%40laposte.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO">andr55 at laposte.net + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Nov 6 19:40:48 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002928.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002932.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2935">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2935">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2935">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2935">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Wolfgang Bornath a écrit : +><i> 2010/11/6 Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI<<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">renaud at olgiati-in-paraguay.org</A>>: +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> I understand bending backward to help those people in backward countries who +</I>>><i> cannot download, but should we be bothered with those, in the first world, who +</I>>><i> are too stingy to get a proper Internet connection ? +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> What is such a question supposed to be? +</I>><i> I do not see any difference between backward or forward countries, I +</I>><i> only see users with large bandwidth and such with small bandwidth. You +</I>><i> may never heard about it but there are large regions in the so-called +</I>><i> "First World" which are not yet connected to the internet in a proper +</I>><i> way (I know regions in Germany where you are lucky to have a dial-up +</I>><i> connection). As I learned there are also regions in the US which are +</I>><i> as far industrialized as your favourite "backward country". +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Then there is the cost of fast connections - not everybody has the +</I>><i> money to pay for 6MBit lines in countries where such connections are +</I>><i> expensive. And not everybody can put internet costs on top of his +</I>><i> priority list. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Yes, we should be bothered with those. +</I>><i> +</I> +Exactly. +I'm in the region of Montréal, Canada, where broadband is common, but +high bandwidth is *very* expensive. +Personally I have slow ADSL (technically broadband), but with a not very +high monthly limit. +Luckily, I can take my portable to the local library to download my +Mandriva DVDs for free. +Most people in this supposedly favored region do not have this option. +(i.e., no ADSL or not high limit or the local library doesn't provide +free Internet or no portable.) + +BTW, in much of the so-called third world countries, one can have high +bandwidth connexions if one is willing to pay the price. +Often for about the same cost or less as in more favoured countries. +In any case, even paying 5$ to 10$ for a DVD would be much less +expensive for most users around the world than paying for a high +bandwidth Internet connexion. + +Don't forget that we want to reach out to all potential users, not just +those already committed to open source. + +- André +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002928.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002932.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2935">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2935">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2935">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2935">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002936.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002936.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..0d3d6df38 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002936.html @@ -0,0 +1,162 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20ISO&In-Reply-To=%3C4CD5A543.9040309%40laposte.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002939.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002938.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO</H1> + <B>andre999</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20ISO&In-Reply-To=%3C4CD5A543.9040309%40laposte.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO">andr55 at laposte.net + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Nov 6 19:58:11 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002939.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002938.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2936">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2936">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2936">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2936">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Olivier Thauvin a écrit : +><i> * andre999 (<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">andr55 at laposte.net</A>) wrote: +</I>><i> +</I>>>><i> * andre999 (<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">andr55 at laposte.net</A>) wrote: +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>>><i> Donald Stewart a écrit : +</I>>>>><i> +</I>>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> The problem of delta rpm is the work need to generated alls delta and +</I>>>><i> the space need on mirrors to host everything. +</I>>>><i> We must provide delta for each version to the next one: +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> - main foo-1 +</I>>>><i> - upd foo-2 D: 1->2 +</I>>>><i> foo-3 D: 2->3 and 1->3 ? +</I>>>><i> foo-4 D: 3->4 and 1->4, 2->4 ? +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> +</I>>><i> I would make all delta updates relative to the distro release, i.e. +</I>>><i> - main = foo-1 +</I>>><i> - upd_full = foo-2, foo-3, foo-4, etc +</I>>><i> - upd_delta = foo-1>2, foo-1>3, foo-1>4, etc +</I>>><i> without foo 2>3, 2>4, 3>4 +</I>>><i> (so half as many, with 3 updates.) +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Note that the idea is to retain full update packages, the delta updates +</I>>><i> being a file-by-file diff of contained files (probably in their own +</I>>><i> repository). +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> That mean people udapting frequently their distribution will not profit +</I>><i> of delta rpm, then downloading the full rpm as soon they made one +</I>><i> update. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Delta rpm will become not so usefull then, except for new install. +</I>><i> +</I>Don't think so. I follow closely changes in Mozilla Seamonkey, for +example, and changes are very small with each update. I would say much +less than 1% of the files, by the space taken. +I think that this is typical. +However, for much smaller programs, it could be that after cumulative +updates, the delta update is the same size as a full update - but never +bigger (except maybe a few bytes). +>>><i> etc... +</I>>>><i> What if delta 1->4 is bigger than the package itself ? and for 2->4 ? +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> +</I>>><i> Highly improbable, as I conceive it. +</I>>><i> If foo-1.rpm contains files fooa foob fooc food, and only foob changes +</I>>><i> to foob', +</I>>><i> then full foo-2.rpm contains files fooa foob' fooc food +</I>>><i> and delta foo-2d.rpm contains only file foob', with the info that this +</I>>><i> replaces foob. +</I>>><i> And of course with this model, there is no 2->4. +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> Changes between 1->4 will probably be bigger than 2->4 as there is more +</I>><i> changes between them. +</I>><i> +</I>Evidently. The deltas will tend to become bigger with each update. But +remaining generally much smaller than a full update. +>>><i> Delta rpm is hard to manage (any volunteer to write the tools to manage +</I>>>><i> this ?) and as bonus, I am not sure it is still compatible with our +</I>>>><i> current rpm... +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> +</I>>><i> To create a delta rpm, one only needs the new full version (or the +</I>>><i> proposed contents), and a script which automatically includes the new +</I>>><i> files with the references to those replaced. +</I>>><i> I'm not trying to say it is simple to write - especially since I +</I>>><i> understand that the current tools are written in Perl - which has a +</I>>><i> syntax which I barely understand. +</I>>><i> But I'd be interested in contributing to my ability. +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> Nothing deny you to start to work on this and then submit you code. It's +</I>><i> what I did for the mirrors tools :) +</I>><i> +</I>Good idea :) +The arrival of Mageia is motivating me to contribute more, something +I've always put off doing with Mandriva (except to Bugzilla and forums). +Maybe I can find a language a bit more friendly (to me) than Perl ? +><i> We'll see when BS and SVN will be ready to merge it if it works. +</I>><i> +</I>>>><i> Just think we don't have an infinite space on mirror. Even the sound +</I>>>><i> good, please try to estimated the cost it can be per release. +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> +</I>>><i> I agree it would take more space on mirrors, but as full updates take +</I>>><i> much less space than the release, +</I>>><i> delta updates would take considerably less space the full updates. +</I>>><i> Also, the lower bandwidth to download for users would also benefit the +</I>>><i> mirrors. +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> You know, most of our rpms are less than 10MB, but du -sh is clear, the +</I>><i> distribution is around 35GB per arch. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Nothing is really big on mirrors, but the results is. +</I>><i> +</I>But if we can reduce 10MB updates to 1MB, that would be a big benefit +for downloading updates. Especially for low bandwidth users. +And I think that the % update will likely be much more than that. +Don't forget that commercial updates (often erroneously referred to as +patches) are often delta (by file) updates, as being proposed. + +- André +</PRE> + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002939.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002938.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2936">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2936">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2936">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2936">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002937.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002937.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..a9a38227e --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002937.html @@ -0,0 +1,100 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20ISO&In-Reply-To=%3C4CD5A5E7.102%40laposte.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002931.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002939.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO</H1> + <B>andre999</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20ISO&In-Reply-To=%3C4CD5A5E7.102%40laposte.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO">andr55 at laposte.net + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Nov 6 20:00:55 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002931.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002939.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2937">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2937">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2937">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2937">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Luca Berra a écrit : +><i> +</I>><i> On Wed, Nov 03, 2010 at 08:16:22PM +0100, Olivier Thauvin wrote: +</I>>><i> * andre999 (<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">andr55 at laposte.net</A>) wrote: +</I>>>><i> Donald Stewart a écrit : +</I>>>>><i> On 1 November 2010 10:24, Marc Paré<<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">marc at marcpare.com</A>> wrote: +</I>>>>>><i> Le 2010-11-01 06:00, Philippe DIDIER a écrit : +</I>>>>><i> Using delta rpms would reduce the size of the updates, or has my lack +</I>>>>><i> of understanding of delta roms got in the way? +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> Delta rpms, relative to the latest distro release, are long overdue. +</I>>>><i> (And not only in the Mandriva world. Also for Mozilla, OpenOffice, +</I>>>><i> etc.) +</I>>>><i> Note that for much commercial software, updates are normally delta. +</I>>>><i> Such updates are often erroneously called patches. +</I>>>><i> This may be partly a limitation of rpm packages, or more the +</I>>>><i> programs that install/update such packages. If so, it should be a +</I>>>><i> priority to correct this lack. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> The problem of delta rpm is the work need to generated alls delta and +</I>>><i> the space need on mirrors to host everything. +</I>>><i> We must provide delta for each version to the next one: +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> - main foo-1 +</I>>><i> - upd foo-2 D: 1->2 +</I>>><i> foo-3 D: 2->3 and 1->3 ? +</I>>><i> foo-4 D: 3->4 and 1->4, 2->4 ? +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> etc... +</I>>><i> What if delta 1->4 is bigger than the package itself ? and for 2->4 ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> As nanar points out delta rpm is a bad design +</I>><i> +</I>><i> a working concept would have been basing all deltas on a specific rpm +</I>><i> (i.e. the one in */release) and bundling entire files. in this case a +</I>><i> patch will grow at most as the original rpm, and you don't care about +</I>><i> keeping incremental diffs. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> L. +</I> +Which is exactly what I was proposing. +Delta by file relative to the official distro release. + +- André +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002931.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002939.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2937">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2937">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2937">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2937">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002938.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002938.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..4037d2724 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002938.html @@ -0,0 +1,93 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20ISO&In-Reply-To=%3C20101106224333.GS7479%40virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002936.html"> + + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO</H1> + <B>Olivier Thauvin</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20ISO&In-Reply-To=%3C20101106224333.GS7479%40virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO">nanardon at nanardon.zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Nov 6 23:43:34 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002936.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2938">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2938">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2938">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2938">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>* andre999 (<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">andr55 at laposte.net</A>) wrote: +><i> Olivier Thauvin a écrit : +</I>>><i> Nothing deny you to start to work on this and then submit you code. It's +</I>>><i> what I did for the mirrors tools :) +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> Good idea :) +</I>><i> The arrival of Mageia is motivating me to contribute more, something +</I>><i> I've always put off doing with Mandriva (except to Bugzilla and forums). +</I>><i> Maybe I can find a language a bit more friendly (to me) than Perl ? +</I> +Perl is preferred since a) the whole BS is in perl, b) it is the +language we mostly know (AFAIK). + +But do as you want, since the script is properly documented. + +>><i> +</I>>><i> Nothing is really big on mirrors, but the results is. +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> But if we can reduce 10MB updates to 1MB, that would be a big benefit +</I>><i> for downloading updates. Especially for low bandwidth users. +</I>><i> And I think that the % update will likely be much more than that. +</I>><i> Don't forget that commercial updates (often erroneously referred to as +</I>><i> patches) are often delta (by file) updates, as being proposed. +</I> +Exactly what I said, nothing is big... But it come in addition to others +data. + +-- + +Olivier Thauvin +CNRS - LATMOS +♖ ♘ ♗ ♕ ♔ ♗ ♘ ♖ +-------------- next part -------------- +A non-text attachment was scrubbed... +Name: not available +Type: application/pgp-signature +Size: 197 bytes +Desc: not available +URL: </pipermail/mageia-discuss/attachments/20101106/8a462da2/attachment.asc> +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002936.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2938">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2938">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2938">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2938">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002939.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002939.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..69b4450b7 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/002939.html @@ -0,0 +1,119 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20ISO&In-Reply-To=%3C20101106224654.GT7479%40virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002937.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002936.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO</H1> + <B>Olivier Thauvin</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions%20for%20the%20ISO&In-Reply-To=%3C20101106224654.GT7479%40virgo.home.nanardon.zarb.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO">nanardon at nanardon.zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Nov 6 23:46:55 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002937.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002936.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2939">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2939">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2939">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2939">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>* andre999 (<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">andr55 at laposte.net</A>) wrote: +><i> Luca Berra a écrit : +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> On Wed, Nov 03, 2010 at 08:16:22PM +0100, Olivier Thauvin wrote: +</I>>>><i> * andre999 (<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">andr55 at laposte.net</A>) wrote: +</I>>>>><i> Donald Stewart a écrit : +</I>>>>>><i> On 1 November 2010 10:24, Marc Paré<<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">marc at marcpare.com</A>> wrote: +</I>>>>>>><i> Le 2010-11-01 06:00, Philippe DIDIER a écrit : +</I>>>>>><i> Using delta rpms would reduce the size of the updates, or has my lack +</I>>>>>><i> of understanding of delta roms got in the way? +</I>>>>><i> +</I>>>>><i> Delta rpms, relative to the latest distro release, are long overdue. +</I>>>>><i> (And not only in the Mandriva world. Also for Mozilla, OpenOffice, +</I>>>>><i> etc.) +</I>>>>><i> Note that for much commercial software, updates are normally delta. +</I>>>>><i> Such updates are often erroneously called patches. +</I>>>>><i> This may be partly a limitation of rpm packages, or more the +</I>>>>><i> programs that install/update such packages. If so, it should be a +</I>>>>><i> priority to correct this lack. +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> The problem of delta rpm is the work need to generated alls delta and +</I>>>><i> the space need on mirrors to host everything. +</I>>>><i> We must provide delta for each version to the next one: +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> - main foo-1 +</I>>>><i> - upd foo-2 D: 1->2 +</I>>>><i> foo-3 D: 2->3 and 1->3 ? +</I>>>><i> foo-4 D: 3->4 and 1->4, 2->4 ? +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> etc... +</I>>>><i> What if delta 1->4 is bigger than the package itself ? and for 2->4 ? +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> As nanar points out delta rpm is a bad design +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> a working concept would have been basing all deltas on a specific rpm +</I>>><i> (i.e. the one in */release) and bundling entire files. in this case a +</I>>><i> patch will grow at most as the original rpm, and you don't care about +</I>>><i> keeping incremental diffs. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> L. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Which is exactly what I was proposing. +</I>><i> Delta by file relative to the official distro release. +</I> +So to update from -1 to -3 I'll download around 300KB but to upgrade +from -2 to -3 I'll download the full rpm so maybe around 20MB (in the +case the rpm is 20MB) ? + +It's a proposal like others... + +I am not sure people having slow connections will enjoy this. + +-- + +Olivier Thauvin +CNRS - LATMOS +♖ ♘ ♗ ♕ ♔ ♗ ♘ ♖ +-------------- next part -------------- +A non-text attachment was scrubbed... +Name: not available +Type: application/pgp-signature +Size: 197 bytes +Desc: not available +URL: </pipermail/mageia-discuss/attachments/20101106/cf589d11/attachment.asc> +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002937.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002936.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2939">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2939">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2939">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2939">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/author.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/author.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..cb83d5c78 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/author.html @@ -0,0 +1,122 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-discuss 6 November 2010 Archive by author</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>6 November 2010 Archives by author</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sat Nov 6 10:04:36 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sat Nov 6 23:46:55 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 15<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="002931.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2931"> </A> +<I>Luca Berra +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002928.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2928"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002929.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2929"> </A> +<I>Philippe DIDIER +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002925.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2925"> </A> +<I>Margot +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002926.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2926"> </A> +<I>Margot +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002930.html">[Mageia-discuss] Introducing mageia-app-db +</A><A NAME="2930"> </A> +<I>Jérôme Martin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002927.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2927"> </A> +<I>Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002932.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2932"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002933.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2933"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002938.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2938"> </A> +<I>Olivier Thauvin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002939.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2939"> </A> +<I>Olivier Thauvin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002934.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2934"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002935.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2935"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002936.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2936"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002937.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2937"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sat Nov 6 23:46:55 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sat Nov 6 23:46:58 CET 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/date.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/date.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..d3a330021 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/date.html @@ -0,0 +1,122 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-discuss 6 November 2010 Archive by date</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>6 November 2010 Archives by date</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sat Nov 6 10:04:36 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sat Nov 6 23:46:55 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 15<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="002925.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2925"> </A> +<I>Margot +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002926.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2926"> </A> +<I>Margot +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002927.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2927"> </A> +<I>Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002928.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2928"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002929.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2929"> </A> +<I>Philippe DIDIER +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002930.html">[Mageia-discuss] Introducing mageia-app-db +</A><A NAME="2930"> </A> +<I>Jérôme Martin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002931.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2931"> </A> +<I>Luca Berra +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002932.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2932"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002933.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2933"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002934.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2934"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002935.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2935"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002936.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2936"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002937.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2937"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002938.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2938"> </A> +<I>Olivier Thauvin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002939.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2939"> </A> +<I>Olivier Thauvin +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sat Nov 6 23:46:55 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sat Nov 6 23:46:58 CET 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/index.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/index.html new file mode 120000 index 000000000..db4b46f72 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/index.html @@ -0,0 +1 @@ +thread.html
\ No newline at end of file diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/subject.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/subject.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..5918c681a --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/subject.html @@ -0,0 +1,122 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-discuss 6 November 2010 Archive by subject</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>6 November 2010 Archives by subject</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sat Nov 6 10:04:36 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sat Nov 6 23:46:55 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 15<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="002930.html">[Mageia-discuss] Introducing mageia-app-db +</A><A NAME="2930"> </A> +<I>Jérôme Martin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002925.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2925"> </A> +<I>Margot +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002926.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2926"> </A> +<I>Margot +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002927.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2927"> </A> +<I>Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002928.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2928"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002929.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2929"> </A> +<I>Philippe DIDIER +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002931.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2931"> </A> +<I>Luca Berra +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002932.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2932"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002933.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2933"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002934.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2934"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002935.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2935"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002936.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2936"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002937.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2937"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002938.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2938"> </A> +<I>Olivier Thauvin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="002939.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2939"> </A> +<I>Olivier Thauvin +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sat Nov 6 23:46:55 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sat Nov 6 23:46:58 CET 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/thread.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/thread.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..42c9947c1 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101106/thread.html @@ -0,0 +1,151 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-discuss 6 November 2010 Archive by thread</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>6 November 2010 Archives by thread</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sat Nov 6 10:04:36 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sat Nov 6 23:46:55 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 15<p> + <ul> + +<!--0 01289034276- --> +<LI><A HREF="002925.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2925"> </A> +<I>Margot +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01289034276-01289057703- --> +<LI><A HREF="002933.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2933"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +<!--1 01289034276-01289067082- --> +<LI><A HREF="002934.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2934"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +</UL> +<!--0 01289034514- --> +<LI><A HREF="002926.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2926"> </A> +<I>Margot +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01289034514-01289039383- --> +<LI><A HREF="002927.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2927"> </A> +<I>Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI +</I> + +<UL> +<!--2 01289034514-01289039383-01289041008- --> +<LI><A HREF="002928.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2928"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<UL> +<!--3 01289034514-01289039383-01289041008-01289068848- --> +<LI><A HREF="002935.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2935"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +</UL> +<!--2 01289034514-01289039383-01289057285- --> +<LI><A HREF="002932.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2932"> </A> +<I>Marc Paré +</I> + +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 01289048528- --> +<LI><A HREF="002929.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2929"> </A> +<I>Philippe DIDIER +</I> + +<!--0 01289049463- --> +<LI><A HREF="002930.html">[Mageia-discuss] Introducing mageia-app-db +</A><A NAME="2930"> </A> +<I>Jérôme Martin +</I> + +<!--0 01289055198- --> +<LI><A HREF="002931.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2931"> </A> +<I>Luca Berra +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01289055198-01289070055- --> +<LI><A HREF="002937.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2937"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<UL> +<!--2 01289055198-01289070055-01289083615- --> +<LI><A HREF="002939.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2939"> </A> +<I>Olivier Thauvin +</I> + +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 01289069891- --> +<LI><A HREF="002936.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2936"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01289069891-01289083414- --> +<LI><A HREF="002938.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions for the ISO +</A><A NAME="2938"> </A> +<I>Olivier Thauvin +</I> + +</UL> + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sat Nov 6 23:46:55 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sat Nov 6 23:46:58 CET 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + |