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[Was: forking mandriva] + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20%5BCooker%5D%20Transparency%20%26%20open%20invitation%20to%20a%0A%20united%20foundation..%3F%20%5BWas%3A%20forking%20mandriva%5D&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTik_ncUrm_Q9LPYeW3P6K2KEcbZ-%3DA8qWtPni4Py%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001287.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001276.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] [Cooker] Transparency & open invitation to a united foundation..? [Was: forking mandriva]</H1> + <B>Per Øyvind Karlsen</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20%5BCooker%5D%20Transparency%20%26%20open%20invitation%20to%20a%0A%20united%20foundation..%3F%20%5BWas%3A%20forking%20mandriva%5D&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTik_ncUrm_Q9LPYeW3P6K2KEcbZ-%3DA8qWtPni4Py%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] [Cooker] Transparency & open invitation to a united foundation..? [Was: forking mandriva]">peroyvind at mandriva.org + </A><BR> + <I>Tue Sep 21 11:30:42 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001287.html">[Mageia-discuss] Fwd: Re: New name for cooker +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001276.html">[Mageia-discuss] [ul-developers] Re: [Cooker] Transparency & open invitation to a united foundation..? [Was: forking mandriva] +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#376">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#376">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#376">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#376">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>2010/9/21 Wolfgang Bornath <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">molch.b at googlemail.com</A>>: +><i> 2010/9/21 Per Øyvind Karlsen <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">peroyvind at mandriva.org</A>>: +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Oh well, I fear that this I with this post and the proposition might +</I>>><i> just be flamed to death no matter how sane and justified I may find +</I>>><i> this that others might consider a flamebait pipedream, or perhaps just +</I>>><i> ignored which wouldn't surprise me that much either, but as there +</I>>><i> might just be slight chance of constructive discussion taking place +</I>>><i> and something of use to someone rather than a new round with +</I>>><i> distribution of blame and angry voices, I take my chances in the +</I>>><i> spirit of the greater good for everyone. :o) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Hmm, now here we have our old Per Øyvind back, while his person was +</I>><i> occupied by a demon lately? +</I>Nah, he just rather felt the motivation and ideas about organization +being too different and in contrast, getting in the way of any mutual +goals and hopes, making them irrelevant. But I'd rather focus on +bringing these in line and of mutual interest as well now rather than +criticizing further. ;) +><i> +</I>><i> What you propose makes the same sense as it made a couple of months +</I>><i> ago, but the circumstances have changed a lot meanwhile. Yoou can't +</I>><i> turn back the pages and read again like "Forget what was, here is a +</I>><i> born again world". Now such a system as you suggest will depend not +</I>><i> only on technical and economical questions as it was some time ago but +</I>><i> also on how much trust you can still have / want to have in the +</I>><i> current powers at Mandriva as well as how much motivation the makers +</I>><i> of this fork can show to cooperate with a company which has treated +</I>><i> them as seen in the previous months. This can only be answered by +</I>><i> those people, not by any other. +</I>Well, you and me both has managed to stay focused on and more care +around the community part despite getting canned from the company +since quite a while ago, and even both had our quarrels with some of +the community as well, independent of our employment, we're still +around. Personally I'd feel rather hypocritical otherwise as any +claims and beliefs of mine about Mandriva Linux being a community +distribution wouldn't be consistent with letting my professional +relations interfer with community involvement. I'd experience it as if +I were setting myself and my own personal feelings towards the +employer in that context, especially if imposing it on the community +and allow for it to dictate their direction.. + +I also feel that the claim about all talents and core developers of +the distribution being quite unfair to those people employed at +Conectiva, which AFAIK still has more people despite all it's previous +departures (which to my understanding most of likely wouldn't have +left either under the current situation where remaining staff chose to +stay) assigned to work on the community distribution than Edge-IT had +when liquidated. This kinda suggests a notion of the whole +distribution and anything of importance revolves around these +relatively few people at Edge-IT, and that the staff at Conectiva, +despite being made up of more people, they're less important.. Same +can be said for community contributors.. + +So, is this the case? If it's not, then there shouldn't be anything in +the way of continuing involvement in the community and help improve it +and setting up a community organization together with and around it, +after all, we're grownups and should know better than taking out our +grudges on others.. +I don't really like implying such and feel uncomfortable about raising +the questions, but there's several details concerning this that raises +the question on where you're actually acting in the community's best +interest or not, if your intentions really are, then I urge you to +reconsider participate in this attempt on establishing a dialogue.. + +Certainly there can be other technical differences and desires +motivating the fork as well, making it more desirable for both parties +and allowing for them different focus and priorities without being at +conflict, but this doesn't have to mean that a split has to happen in +the community nor that we cannot work together on creating an +organization together and collaborate rather than burning bridges and +creating grounds for controversy and hostility. As the interest and +desires expressed by Matthew and Unity Linux, and their efforts all +along has shown, there is room for diversity and different focus while +at the same time actively working on improving relations and how to +better complement eachother. +As there's obviously interest for these things in both the Unity and +Mandriva community, why wouldn't there be so in the Mageia community? +If there's not, it wouldn't seem very professional of you, and +certainly not community friendly nor in the community's best interest, +would it? +The official news and strategy announced by Mandriva certainly doesn't +seem to rumours on bad intentions threatening the community or the +distribution's future either, so that shouldn't be the concern +either... +><i> +</I>><i> And of course it depends on how the powers at Mandriva (I do not mean +</I>><i> Laprevote but rather his peers) will see such an obligation, which it +</I>><i> will be for them. Would they see it as a necessary move, I mean +</I>><i> necessary for their plans, not ours? As we do not know their plans we +</I>><i> can't even speculate about that. I remember an investor talking to a +</I>><i> former member of the Mandriva board, advising him to get rid of the +</I>><i> enduser community because they only keep the company away from +</I>><i> important work. I don't say that all investors think like that, but +</I>><i> it's a good example. +</I>Then I guess we should be happy that investor is no longer on the board. ;) +But certainly with regards to the company and related to the changes +in it's management, verifying their current position on the matter and +ensure their actual interest would certainly be useful before assuming +or expecting anything. If we have it and a good dialogue is +established, then much can be done from there. +><i> +</I>><i> Of course, a Mandriva company which really means to carry out what +</I>><i> Laprevote mentioned in his motivation "news", a Mandriva company which +</I>><i> starts being communicative and transparent where it is possible, a +</I>><i> Mandriva company which starts doing what it always claimed to be their +</I>><i> commitment ("we are committed to the community"), this could be a good +</I>><i> partner, /me thinks, day dreaming. +</I>Yupp, and we can only find out by giving the chance and try contribute +to this ourself, it's a two-way street after all.. :) +><i> But as I wrote: I have no voice in this anyway. +</I>Yupp, but we can at least hope to influence in the best interest, for +Mageia I personally didn't really have any real knowledge of before +after it's announcement, so I'm not expecting to even have much of a +voice in by myself, yet I'm hoping logic, reason and mutual benefits +and goals will come out winning in the end.. :) +><i> +</I>><i> BTW: I thought the chief in hugs was François Bancilhon? :) +</I>Well, I'm his secret twin, and as he weren't granted this overwhelming +responsibility at the first assembly meeting, he has to share the +duties with me, tipsy or not. ;) + +-- +Hugziez&kizzez, +Your BFF <3 +Per Øyvind +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001287.html">[Mageia-discuss] Fwd: Re: New name for cooker +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001276.html">[Mageia-discuss] [ul-developers] Re: [Cooker] Transparency & open invitation to a united foundation..? 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