diff options
Diffstat (limited to 'zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210')
20 files changed, 2288 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001681.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001681.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..58cf3f0e2 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001681.html @@ -0,0 +1,179 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C4D01FF51.7010208%40laposte.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001682.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>andre999</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C4D01FF51.7010208%40laposte.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">andr55 at laposte.net + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Dec 10 11:22:09 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001682.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1681">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1681">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1681">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1681">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Ernest N. Wilcox Jr. a écrit : +><i> +</I>><i> Perhaps we should follow the approach other distributions seem to use. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Official Mageia repos: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Core: The core Mageia distribution (IMHO, should contain only a very minimal +</I>><i> instalation (No GUI or Productivity software). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Desktop: GUI and Productivity software. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Server: The various server software that would not normally be used on a +</I>><i> Desktop system. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Community: Community suppoted GPL software +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Non-Official Mageis repos (optional): +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Non-GPL: Software that is not GPL Licensed +</I>Assume that this means software without ANY free licence. (Such as bsd, +mpl, etc.) +If drivers are included in these repos, and they are optional, many +systems will not function properly with the required repos. +Only Fedora (of the distros mentioned below) has a policy to exclude +non-free software. The others have a separate set of repos for non-free. + +><i> Extra: Software that can not be included in the above categories +</I>Is this for software that is legally constrained in some countries ? + +Where would development software (CLI and GUI) go ? + +This approach would be advantageous if mirrors were to carry only some +of the repo groups suggested. +If official mirrors must carry all the official repos, it's not clear +the advantage of separating core/desktop/server repos, unless they are +to have different levels of support. +For non-official mirrors, a server-only mirror would be a lot smaller. + +Using your definitions : +Mandriva main = Core + Desktop + Server + many development packages +Mandriva contrib = community +Mandriva non-free = most Non-GPL (some of which is in main) +Some legally contrained packages are excluded. Supposedly in PLF. + +Debian uses the same names main, contrib, non-free, with explicit policy +close to Mandriva practices. +In the same policy page, they say that patent-contrained software goes +into non-free, then further down they say that it can be excluded. +<A HREF="http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html">http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html</A> + +OpenSuse has supported oss (free) and non-oss (non-free); as well as +unsupported contrib. +Corresponding to the repos of Mandriva. + +Ubuntu has 4 repo groups, essentially free and non-free, each divided +into supported and unsupported. +They seem to permit contrained packages. + +Fedora package acceptance policy is explicitly dictated by RedHat. +Includes only free packages (thus excluding redistributable drivers), +plus excludes legally constrained packages. +Fedora is the only distro reviewed here which does not accept non-free +packages. +However, given that RedHat sells their versions of Linux (with support), +one could question the motivation of the Fedora policy. + +><i> Since I am not knowlegable about running an FTP mirror, I do not know whether +</I>><i> it is best to put these listings under a single tree, or to split them into +</I>><i> two trees, but if we split them, perhaps we could approach PLF to host the +</I>><i> Non-officvial repos? +</I> +Note that FTP would only be used for end-users downloading FROM mirrors. +Mageia will require official mirrors to synchronize at regular intervals +using rsync + certain options. + +For mirrors which want to include everything, it is obviously simpler to +have a single tree, requiring a single simple rsync line. +However a second simple rsync line isn't that complicated. + +For mirrors which wish to exclude the optional parts, the choice is +between one simple rsync line (if 2 trees), or a more complex line +adding an option to exclude each unwanted part of the of the source tree. +(With the complication that an error in specifying this option could +cause problems with the mirroring. + +Using PLF for mirroring constrained packages sounds like a very good +idea. Their site says that they are open to hosting such packages for +all distros, as long as there are volonteers to support the packages. +And since Mageia is (at least initially) compatible with Mandriva, their +page "easyurpmi" could be easily modified to set up mirror sources for +Mageia users. (Call our version "easymageia" ?) + +Using PLF for contrained packages offers a plus for mirror sites willing +to host such packages. +They need only mirror one PLF tree for all distros - be it Mandriva, +Unity, or Mageia. + +Interestingly, in a search for all packages containing "codec" or "mp" +(for mpeg) in the name, I found only 2 packages in PLF that weren't +already in Mandriva : one being quotations from the Simpsons, which the +package said was there for copyright reasons. +All the other PLF packages I found in the above searches were in +Mandriva main. +Many if not all of which were in PLF for patent reasons, according to +the package description. +Which brings up a difference of PLF packages : the PLF description +usually ends with a line specifying why they are there. (At least +packages destined for Mandriva users.) +So if a user wants to avoid patent constrained packages, they are +identified as such in PLF - but not in Mandriva. + +><i> This is only a suggestion (and we may have already moved past this point), but +</I>><i> perhaps this will let us be more flexible to the end users (both DeskTop and +</I>><i> Server). +</I> +For that point, end users could also use the install routines on the +distribution media, or the (rpm) package categories, to selectively +install Desktop and/or server packages. Both of which could use +improvement. + +But the suggestion regarding PLF is interesting ... + +my 2 cents :) + +- André +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001682.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1681">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1681">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1681">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1681">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001682.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001682.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..bd473e3bf --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001682.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C4D021515.70209%40iki.fi%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001681.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001683.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>Anssi Hannula</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C4D021515.70209%40iki.fi%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">anssi.hannula at iki.fi + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Dec 10 12:55:01 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001681.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001683.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1682">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1682">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1682">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1682">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Just some smallish notes regarding other distros.. + +On 10.12.2010 12:22, andre999 wrote: +><i> Debian uses the same names main, contrib, non-free, with explicit policy +</I>><i> close to Mandriva practices. +</I>><i> In the same policy page, they say that patent-contrained software goes +</I>><i> into non-free, then further down they say that it can be excluded. +</I>><i> <A HREF="http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html">http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html</A> +</I> +Interesting.. this doesn't seem to correspond to reality (they have e.g. +ffmpeg with patent-constrained codecs enabled). + +[...] +><i> Fedora package acceptance policy is explicitly dictated by RedHat. +</I>><i> Includes only free packages (thus excluding redistributable drivers), +</I>><i> plus excludes legally constrained packages. +</I>><i> Fedora is the only distro reviewed here which does not accept non-free +</I>><i> packages. +</I> +They allow non-free firmware: +<A HREF="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/LicensingGuidelines#Binary_Firmware">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/LicensingGuidelines#Binary_Firmware</A> + +><i> However, given that RedHat sells their versions of Linux (with support), +</I>><i> one could question the motivation of the Fedora policy. +</I> +-- +Anssi Hannula +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001681.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001683.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1682">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1682">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1682">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1682">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001683.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001683.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..036814510 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001683.html @@ -0,0 +1,119 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C201012101436.07922.bgmilne%40multilinks.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001682.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001684.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>Buchan Milne</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C201012101436.07922.bgmilne%40multilinks.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">bgmilne at multilinks.com + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Dec 10 14:36:07 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001682.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001684.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1683">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1683">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1683">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1683">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Friday, 10 December 2010 11:22:09 andre999 wrote: +><i> Using PLF for mirroring constrained packages sounds like a very good +</I>><i> idea. Their site says that they are open to hosting such packages for +</I>><i> all distros, as long as there are volonteers to support the packages. +</I> +Have you looked at the names of people involved with PLF? Have you seen the +same names posting on this list? + +><i> And since Mageia is (at least initially) compatible with Mandriva, their +</I>><i> page "easyurpmi" could be easily modified to set up mirror sources for +</I>><i> Mageia users. (Call our version "easymageia" ?) +</I> +easyurpmi should not be necessary. Users should not be expected to paste +random commands from random sites into a root shell. + +><i> Using PLF for contrained packages offers a plus for mirror sites willing +</I>><i> to host such packages. +</I>><i> They need only mirror one PLF tree for all distros - be it Mandriva, +</I>><i> Unity, or Mageia. +</I> +Alternatively, the whole dichotomy that necessitated contributors to create a +separate project should be addressed differently, but keeping the packages +integrated into the distribution, but avoiding legal issues by making it easy +for entities hosting the files to avoid infringement. + +><i> Interestingly, in a search for all packages containing "codec" or "mp" +</I>><i> (for mpeg) in the name, I found only 2 packages in PLF that weren't +</I>><i> already in Mandriva : one being quotations from the Simpsons, which the +</I>><i> package said was there for copyright reasons. +</I>><i> All the other PLF packages I found in the above searches were in +</I>><i> Mandriva main. +</I> +Duh. They are the same package, just built with different options. + +><i> Many if not all of which were in PLF for patent reasons, according to +</I>><i> the package description. +</I>><i> Which brings up a difference of PLF packages : the PLF description +</I>><i> usually ends with a line specifying why they are there. (At least +</I>><i> packages destined for Mandriva users.) +</I> +Search for plf in e.g. <A HREF="http://svn.mandriva.com/cgi-">http://svn.mandriva.com/cgi-</A> +bin/viewvc.cgi/packages/cooker/ffmpeg/current/SPECS/ffmpeg.spec?revision=612098&view=markup + +><i> So if a user wants to avoid patent constrained packages, they are +</I>><i> identified as such in PLF - but not in Mandriva. +</I> +Intentionally. I don't think Mandriva would have liked a note saying "If you +want the patent-encumbered features in this package, visit +<A HREF="http://plf.zarb.org">http://plf.zarb.org</A>", which could have been sufficiently complicit for DMCA +issues. + +><i> > This is only a suggestion (and we may have already moved past this +</I>><i> > point), but perhaps this will let us be more flexible to the end users +</I>><i> > (both DeskTop and Server). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> For that point, end users could also use the install routines on the +</I>><i> distribution media, or the (rpm) package categories, to selectively +</I>><i> install Desktop and/or server packages. Both of which could use +</I>><i> improvement. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> But the suggestion regarding PLF is interesting ... +</I> +No, we were looking for a more optimal solution than PLF ... +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001682.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001684.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1683">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1683">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1683">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1683">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001684.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001684.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..dc7fdc838 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001684.html @@ -0,0 +1,97 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTi%3D04jQPtt%2B2cQfAB6E_%3DJNqyKcAw8cG2g-NssPo%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001683.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001685.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>Wolfgang Bornath</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTi%3D04jQPtt%2B2cQfAB6E_%3DJNqyKcAw8cG2g-NssPo%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">molch.b at googlemail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Dec 10 16:35:09 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001683.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001685.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1684">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1684">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1684">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1684">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>2010/12/10 Buchan Milne <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">bgmilne at multilinks.com</A>>: +><i> +</I>><i> easyurpmi should not be necessary. Users should not be expected to paste +</I>><i> random commands from random sites into a root shell. +</I> +Yes, if urpmi were able to switch from one mirror to another one in +case of any failures or at will of the user if the automatically +selected mirror is too slow. An issue discussed often enough since +Mandriva days (also reported as bug). Until this is not solved users +are sometimes (in germany more often than "some times") forced to use +such tools like easyurpmi or smarturpmi. + +><i> Alternatively, the whole dichotomy that necessitated contributors to create a +</I>><i> separate project should be addressed differently, but keeping the packages +</I>><i> integrated into the distribution, but avoiding legal issues by making it easy +</I>><i> for entities hosting the files to avoid infringement. +</I> +Isn't this what this whole discussion is about? There ARE legal issues +with some software users regard as "must have". Now, how do you avoid +these issues? This is the big question we have been talking about for +many days. + +>><i> Many if not all of which were in PLF for patent reasons, according to +</I>>><i> the package description. +</I>>><i> Which brings up a difference of PLF packages : the PLF description +</I>>><i> usually ends with a line specifying why they are there.  (At least +</I>>><i> packages destined for Mandriva users.) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Search for plf in e.g. <A HREF="http://svn.mandriva.com/cgi-">http://svn.mandriva.com/cgi-</A> +</I>><i> bin/viewvc.cgi/packages/cooker/ffmpeg/current/SPECS/ffmpeg.spec?revision=612098&view=markup +</I> +Ah, does that search really give results? It should not because +Mandriva always stated (officially) that they have nothing to do with +PLF. I remember discussions where Mandriva representatives said that +Mandriva can not acknowledge PLF's existance. + +BTW: there are important differences between Mandriva packages and +those built by PLF. Especially such as mplayer and vlc, with reasons. + +-- +wobo +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001683.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001685.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1684">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1684">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1684">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1684">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001685.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001685.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..b90562ae4 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001685.html @@ -0,0 +1,86 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTikmrnhFwO088HR2bFHCZtvsfznSg%3DJMEQQkUpCD%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001684.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001686.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>Romain d'Alverny</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTikmrnhFwO088HR2bFHCZtvsfznSg%3DJMEQQkUpCD%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">rdalverny at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Dec 10 16:45:50 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001684.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001686.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1685">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1685">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1685">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1685">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 16:35, Wolfgang Bornath <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">molch.b at googlemail.com</A>> wrote: +><i> Isn't this what this whole discussion is about? There ARE legal issues +</I>><i> with some software users regard as "must have". Now, how do you avoid +</I>><i> these issues? +</I> +To summarize, strategies: + 1. ignore the issues and see what happens; + 2. ignore the less significant ones; + 3. get to know each of these and manage case by case + 4. other? + +and factor whenever possible and see what happens, update, repeat. + +1. and 2. are more radical, but are some sort of trial-and-error, risk +management strategies. Ok... looking at it this way won't lead us +further I guess. + +Let's try this: what if we consider, at first, that software patents +were a non-issue? (that is, we just consider they are all invalid as +such). + +How would this change/simplify the problem? + - for packaging/shipping the distribution + - for mirroring it + - for using it. + +(please don't go "but there _are_ software patents" for now) + + +Romain +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001684.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001686.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1685">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1685">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1685">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1685">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001686.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001686.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..1c1414e54 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001686.html @@ -0,0 +1,102 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimn_AUE1Qq6dJEej3%2B0qTh0fkXpkt%2BCyXvrf2sy%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001685.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001690.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>Wolfgang Bornath</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimn_AUE1Qq6dJEej3%2B0qTh0fkXpkt%2BCyXvrf2sy%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">molch.b at googlemail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Dec 10 17:04:04 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001685.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001690.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1686">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1686">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1686">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1686">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>2010/12/10 Romain d'Alverny <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">rdalverny at gmail.com</A>>: +><i> +</I>><i> To summarize, strategies: +</I>><i>  1. ignore the issues and see what happens; +</I>><i>  2. ignore the less significant ones; +</I>><i>  3. get to know each of these and manage case by case +</I>><i>  4. other? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> and factor whenever possible and see what happens, update, repeat. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> 1. and 2. are more radical, but are some sort of trial-and-error, risk +</I>><i> management strategies. Ok... looking at it this way won't lead us +</I>><i> further I guess. +</I> +Agreed + +><i> Let's try this: what if we consider, at first, that software patents +</I>><i> were a non-issue? (that is, we just consider they are all invalid as +</I>><i> such). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> How would this change/simplify the problem? +</I>><i>  - for packaging/shipping the distribution +</I>><i>  - for mirroring it +</I>><i>  - for using it. +</I> +><i>From a mirror maintainer's view: +</I>If I am in a country like France (not acknowledging SP) I can ignore +safely the issue +If I am in a country which does acknowledge SP I will have to decide +for myself if I want to take that risk. THis may be an easy decision +in some countries but in others (like the USA) it may be a hard +decision, also depending on who I am (a private person or a large +institution/organisation). + +><i>From the users's view: +</I>Living in a country without SP (or not caring about the issue) it is +the easiest way. I can use automagical setup of media and need not +worry about an extra repo to set before I can watch my DVDs :) +Again in a country like USA I have to decide for myself - this would +be a nightmare if the "whatever-dubious" software is included in the +normal repos. I would have to find out by myself which is "ok" to use +and which is not. + +-- +wobo +</PRE> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001685.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001690.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1686">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1686">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1686">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1686">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001687.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001687.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..e9cbe64a9 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001687.html @@ -0,0 +1,94 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTikeOWETSf3iB9urOxNquUEQPq-_xjXE8KCsD4W7%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001694.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001688.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>Ahmad Samir</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTikeOWETSf3iB9urOxNquUEQPq-_xjXE8KCsD4W7%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">ahmadsamir3891 at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Dec 10 17:27:17 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001694.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001688.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1687">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1687">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1687">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1687">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On 10 December 2010 17:35, Wolfgang Bornath <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">molch.b at googlemail.com</A>> wrote: +><i> 2010/12/10 Buchan Milne <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">bgmilne at multilinks.com</A>>: +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> easyurpmi should not be necessary. Users should not be expected to paste +</I>>><i> random commands from random sites into a root shell. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Yes, if urpmi were able to switch from one mirror to another one in +</I>><i> case of any failures or at will of the user if the automatically +</I>><i> selected mirror is too slow. An issue discussed often enough since +</I>><i> Mandriva days (also reported as bug). Until this is not solved users +</I>><i> are sometimes (in germany more often than "some times") forced to use +</I>><i> such tools like easyurpmi or smarturpmi. +</I>><i> +</I> +Not necessarily, you can use "Configure media sources..."> File> Add a +specific media mirror; this is the old mirror selection dialogue. A +bit hidden, yes, but the rationale was the the "Add" being the default +is visible, while "Add a specific media mirror" is for advanced users. + +As I said before, the MIRRORLIST method in its current incarnation is +a minus not a plus for any user who doesn't have reliable mirrors +geographically-near where he's located :/ + +><i> [...] +</I>><i> -- +</I>><i> wobo +</I>><i> +</I> + + +-- +Ahmad Samir +</PRE> + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001694.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001688.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1687">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1687">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1687">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1687">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001688.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001688.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..8773bd8f4 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001688.html @@ -0,0 +1,103 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimkYJjChVDEF1Z3hUonOgC2QVLAO442snmN%2Bna%2B%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001687.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001689.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>Ahmad Samir</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimkYJjChVDEF1Z3hUonOgC2QVLAO442snmN%2Bna%2B%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">ahmadsamir3891 at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Dec 10 17:28:44 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001687.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001689.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1688">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1688">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1688">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1688">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On 10 December 2010 18:27, Ahmad Samir <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">ahmadsamir3891 at gmail.com</A>> wrote: +><i> On 10 December 2010 17:35, Wolfgang Bornath <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">molch.b at googlemail.com</A>> wrote: +</I>>><i> 2010/12/10 Buchan Milne <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">bgmilne at multilinks.com</A>>: +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> easyurpmi should not be necessary. Users should not be expected to paste +</I>>>><i> random commands from random sites into a root shell. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Yes, if urpmi were able to switch from one mirror to another one in +</I>>><i> case of any failures or at will of the user if the automatically +</I>>><i> selected mirror is too slow. An issue discussed often enough since +</I>>><i> Mandriva days (also reported as bug). Until this is not solved users +</I>>><i> are sometimes (in germany more often than "some times") forced to use +</I>>><i> such tools like easyurpmi or smarturpmi. +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Not necessarily, you can use "Configure media sources..."> File> Add a +</I>><i> specific media mirror; this is the old mirror selection dialogue. A +</I>><i> bit hidden, yes, but the rationale was the the "Add" being the default +</I>><i> is visible, while "Add a specific media mirror" is for advanced users. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> As I said before, the MIRRORLIST method in its current incarnation is +</I>><i> a minus not a plus for any user who doesn't have reliable mirrors +</I>><i> geographically-near where he's located :/ +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> [...] +</I>>><i> -- +</I>>><i> wobo +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> -- +</I>><i> Ahmad Samir +</I>><i> +</I> +Of course it doesn't add PLF repos; but with the current-to-be-used +schema in Mageia it will be sufficient and the user will just click to +enable the "tainted" repo(s). + +-- +Ahmad Samir +</PRE> + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001687.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001689.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1688">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1688">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1688">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1688">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001689.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001689.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..76fa8d3e4 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001689.html @@ -0,0 +1,134 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C201012101737.08275.bgmilne%40multilinks.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001688.html"> + + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>Buchan Milne</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C201012101737.08275.bgmilne%40multilinks.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">bgmilne at multilinks.com + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Dec 10 17:37:07 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001688.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1689">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1689">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1689">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1689">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Friday, 10 December 2010 16:35:09 Wolfgang Bornath wrote: +><i> 2010/12/10 Buchan Milne <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">bgmilne at multilinks.com</A>>: +</I>><i> > easyurpmi should not be necessary. Users should not be expected to paste +</I>><i> > random commands from random sites into a root shell. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Yes, if urpmi were able to switch from one mirror to another one in +</I>><i> case of any failures or at will of the user if the automatically +</I>><i> selected mirror is too slow. An issue discussed often enough since +</I>><i> Mandriva days (also reported as bug). Until this is not solved users +</I>><i> are sometimes (in germany more often than "some times") forced to use +</I>><i> such tools like easyurpmi or smarturpmi. +</I> +But, the user can also have problems here (if the mirror is too slow, if it is +behind, if it isn't maintained and users are *still* vulnerable to "rogue +mirror, keeping old vulnerable software around" issues). + +><i> > Alternatively, the whole dichotomy that necessitated contributors to +</I>><i> > create a separate project should be addressed differently, but keeping +</I>><i> > the packages integrated into the distribution, but avoiding legal issues +</I>><i> > by making it easy for entities hosting the files to avoid infringement. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Isn't this what this whole discussion is about? There ARE legal issues +</I>><i> with some software users regard as "must have". Now, how do you avoid +</I>><i> these issues? +</I> +IMHO: +-split the software so mirrors have an easy method (e.g. rsync --exclude +'*/*/*/tainted') of avoiding software that may be risky for them to distribute +-make the mirror list api support the user submitting the repos names they +want to use (e.g. if I ask for tainted, give me a mirror for tainted, even if +'non-free' is on a different mirror) +-expose these options in the GUI, and possibly use sane defaults (possibly +even by region) +-improve automatic mirror switching in urpmi + +IMHO, media.cfg is more useful for initial (network) installation, and the +case where the user trusts their mirror. + +><i> This is the big question we have been talking about for +</I>><i> many days. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> >> Many if not all of which were in PLF for patent reasons, according to +</I>><i> >> the package description. +</I>><i> >> Which brings up a difference of PLF packages : the PLF description +</I>><i> >> usually ends with a line specifying why they are there. (At least +</I>><i> >> packages destined for Mandriva users.) +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Search for plf in e.g. <A HREF="http://svn.mandriva.com/cgi-">http://svn.mandriva.com/cgi-</A> +</I>><i> > bin/viewvc.cgi/packages/cooker/ffmpeg/current/SPECS/ffmpeg.spec?revision= +</I>><i> > 612098&view=markup +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Ah, does that search really give results? It should not because +</I>><i> Mandriva always stated (officially) that they have nothing to do with +</I>><i> PLF. I remember discussions where Mandriva representatives said that +</I>><i> Mandriva can not acknowledge PLF's existance. +</I> +Mandriva was subverted :-). + +Anyway, what difference does it make, whether a possible patent-infringing +feature is provided in the source, or enabled by a --with flag doesn't change +much. Unless Mandriva was going to actually remove patent infringing code in +the tarballs before committing to svn ... + +However, Mandriva packages do *NOT* in the meta-data shown to end-users +indicate anything about PLF. As such, complaints about linking to infringing +software are invalid. + +><i> BTW: there are important differences between Mandriva packages and +</I>><i> those built by PLF. Especially such as mplayer and vlc, with reasons. +</I> +Of course, but the majority are not *duplicated* from a software maintenance +perspective, that would be a waste of time. + +Regards, +Buchan +</PRE> + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001688.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1689">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1689">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1689">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1689">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001690.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001690.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..e66a23a50 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001690.html @@ -0,0 +1,145 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTikwzvVLS6%3DSerqMb%2BAtXqYAaKm85Bry2xJ_xzy-%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001686.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001691.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>Romain d'Alverny</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTikwzvVLS6%3DSerqMb%2BAtXqYAaKm85Bry2xJ_xzy-%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">rdalverny at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Dec 10 18:44:47 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001686.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001691.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1690">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1690">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1690">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1690">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 17:04, Wolfgang Bornath <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">molch.b at googlemail.com</A>> wrote: +><i> 2010/12/10 Romain d'Alverny <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">rdalverny at gmail.com</A>>: +</I>>><i> Let's try this: what if we consider, at first, that software patents +</I>>><i> were a non-issue? (that is, we just consider they are all invalid as +</I>>><i> such). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> >From a mirror maintainer's view: +</I>><i> If I am in a country like France (not acknowledging SP) I can ignore +</I>><i> safely the issue +</I>><i> If I am in a country which does acknowledge SP I will have to decide +</I>><i> for myself if I want to take that risk. THis may be an easy decision +</I>><i> in some countries but in others (like the USA) it may be a hard +</I>><i> decision, also depending on who I am (a private person or a large +</I>><i> institution/organisation). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> >From the users's view: +</I>><i> Living in a country without SP (or not caring about the issue) it is +</I>><i> the easiest way. I can use automagical setup of media and need not +</I>><i> worry about an extra repo to set before I can watch my DVDs :) +</I>><i> Again in a country like USA I have to decide for myself - this would +</I>><i> be a nightmare if the "whatever-dubious" software is included in the +</I>><i> normal repos. I would have to find out by myself which is "ok" to use +</I>><i> and which is not. +</I> +Ok, but you still take into account SP in your answer. :-p (we would +have come to that, but the idea was to think about it from a naïve, +software-patent-free perspective). + +So... let's take the European Union case, namely, no SP (see next §). +We just don't have to split the media. Easier for everyone in this +territory. + +Well, thing is, even though there is a European policy about that... +it's been unbalanced and challenged for years. In the end, it's just a +mess and law is lagging behind; if not just broken. So it's going to +be, anyway, a battle of positions before something clear and +"definitive" comes out. + +Still. What if? Where is it an issue to distribute/mirror then? Only where: + - SP do exist by law; + - and specific SP are registered on pieces of software distributed/mirrored; + - and these SP are not invalidated (de facto or obviously) by some prior art; + - and those SP are likely to be enforced (that is, practically, there +is a minimum incentive for a patent holder to raise his hand; or, that +it is worth it to enforce it). + +Coming back to my previous post, maybe we should just try something +simple and go from that. + +Shall we take a stance despite SP (for they are just not relevant), +worldwide or more reasonably have a simple, risk-management based +attitude to alter our media/mirror policy only if something happens? + +That would relate somehow to Debian policy in this regard, as misc +mentionned in the "Why validate software patents ?" thread on +mageia-dev, Dec. 8th, ~12:58. And that sounds a decent attitude; see +<A HREF="http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=365390#20">http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=365390#20</A> or +<A HREF="http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2005/01/msg00316.html">http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2005/01/msg00316.html</A> . + +So why not take it the same way, not have a distinct media and see +what happens on notices? + +Yes, this would raise mirroring issues (that would occur anyway), that +we can minify with a policy to manage that globaly; that when an issue +is raised: + - try to fix it for the whole project, not just for some area, so the +weight of the whole community (not only Mageia for that matter) is +behind the case, and not only a local chapter; + - remove only software that gets a full score through this list (to +be updated): + * has an identifiable patent registered on it (exact code/method, +exact patent description); + * has been notified about by the holder (or representative); + * whose holder is identifiable; + * whose holder does not provide a free use license; + * which patent: + - has not expired; + - is not already invalidated; + - has no obvious prior art; + - is being actively enforced; + * other? + - such software or components would be made separately available only +(so we still manage that it depends on the territory). + +So we start with an empty "tainted/whatever" media. And again, see +what happens. That's an option. + + +Romain +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001686.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001691.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1690">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1690">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1690">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1690">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001691.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001691.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..adb9744ef --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001691.html @@ -0,0 +1,93 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTine%2BMMxdmYnTQ4H-OE9ZKz1A%2BBry6MF9%3DkuRrcy%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001690.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001692.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>Wolfgang Bornath</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTine%2BMMxdmYnTQ4H-OE9ZKz1A%2BBry6MF9%3DkuRrcy%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">molch.b at googlemail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Dec 10 19:14:19 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001690.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001692.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1691">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1691">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1691">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1691">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>2010/12/10 Romain d'Alverny <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">rdalverny at gmail.com</A>>: +><i> +</I>><i> Ok, but you still take into account SP in your answer. :-p (we would +</I>><i> have come to that, but the idea was to think about it from a naïve, +</I>><i> software-patent-free perspective). +</I> +If there were no software patents anywhere what would be the issue of +this discussion? +IMHO it makes no sense to discuss something which does not exist + +If Mageia were a project fro French users only we would no have this +discussion. But as it is a worldwide project the probelm exists and +pretending it does not makes no sense, not even from a theoretical +POV. because the theoretical POV is "No SP, no discussion". + +Ok, anyway. + +I see the strategy in your proposition but: + +1. We know from the start that there ARE packages with software which +is patented in some countries. So, the "let's start empty and see what +comes up" is already done with. + +2. In some countries mirror maintainers can not wait until somebody +raises his hand, there are lawyers who write nice "cease and desist" +letters, attached is a bill you have to pay. In Germany this is called +"Kostenpflichtige Abmahnung" and has grown to a habit of some +lawyers. +Meaning: you can't wait and see what happens, you have to make sure +that it does not happen from the start. + +I mean, opinions about software patents set aside for a minute, +software patents are protected by official law in those countries. You +can not break the law on the basis of "let's see what happens". + +-- +wobo +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001690.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001692.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1691">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1691">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1691">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1691">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001692.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001692.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..779504e50 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001692.html @@ -0,0 +1,149 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTi%3DU3%3DAxYJG9AMisYjZW%2BjRZspjFqGR1V2_VkF_C%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001691.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001693.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>Romain d'Alverny</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTi%3DU3%3DAxYJG9AMisYjZW%2BjRZspjFqGR1V2_VkF_C%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">rdalverny at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Dec 10 19:37:38 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001691.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001693.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1692">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1692">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1692">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1692">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 19:14, Wolfgang Bornath <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">molch.b at googlemail.com</A>> wrote: +><i> 2010/12/10 Romain d'Alverny <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">rdalverny at gmail.com</A>>: +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Ok, but you still take into account SP in your answer. :-p (we would +</I>>><i> have come to that, but the idea was to think about it from a naïve, +</I>>><i> software-patent-free perspective). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> If there were no software patents anywhere what would be the issue of +</I>><i> this discussion? +</I>><i> IMHO it makes no sense to discuss something which does not exist +</I> +It does. Because it helps looking at a problem from a totally +different perspective, build from that, and see the +missing/conflicting pieces when you look back at the full problem (or +as you used to look at it before). Which conflicting/missing pieces +may not be the ones one thought they were. + +><i> I see the strategy in your proposition but: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> 1. We know from the start that there ARE packages with software which +</I>><i> is patented in some countries. So, the "let's start empty and see what +</I>><i> comes up" is already done with. +</I> +Are there issues with it? (looking at my previous check-list, maybe to +improve). If so, yes, let's fill this up. If not, let's leave it alone +in the core. + +I mean, what difference does it make with PLF repositories that are +already mirrored? what differences does it make with Debian stuff that +is already mirrored? do they get cease & desist? do we hear about +this? + +><i> 2. In some countries mirror maintainers can not wait until somebody +</I>><i> raises his hand, there are lawyers who write nice "cease and desist" +</I>><i> letters, attached is a bill you have to pay. In Germany this is called +</I>><i> "Kostenpflichtige Abmahnung"  and has grown to a habit of some +</I>><i> lawyers. +</I> +Then in these cases, two options: + - just do not mirror; and people use mirrors on the borders; + - Mageia (or some related entity) provides legal services about this +(taking responsibility for the hosting or other). + +Why "just do not mirror"? Because, taking the strict statu-quo point +of view regarding the software patent thing, that is "just follow the +most restrictive set of rules", we won't be able to cope with just +medias to separate patented software from non-patented sw. It will be +a matter of tags, because the situation is different from territory to +territory. And there are more than two for that matter. + +><i> Meaning: you can't wait and see what happens, you have to make sure +</I>><i> that it does not happen from the start. +</I> +We can't be sure at all of anything. That's why that's to take a +risk-management attitude, provided what we want to achieve, what +stance we want to take. + +><i> I mean, opinions about software patents set aside for a minute, +</I>><i> software patents are protected by official law in those countries. You +</I>><i> can not break the law on the basis of "let's see what happens". +</I> +Many do. Not only for software, but for everything. For many reasons, +among which can be: the law is broken, the law is becoming obsolete, +people do not enforce it, the law should be changed, etc. + +Well, actually, there are two options: break the law/try it as it is. +Or follow it strictly to demonstrate its absurdity. What I propose +here is a middle-ground some other projects already take. + +With the reasonable attitude to manage cases that _are precisely +identified_ (so we avoid reports such as "this piece of software is +likely to be patented"; point needed is: is it? or not? how, why, by +who, is it valid, is it free, is it enforced, are we noticeable/a +target, does it matter given our size? + +As said before, regarding law on software patents, the situation today +is, that's a battlefield anyway. Although the situation in EU should +be clear (no SP), it's not (as many other things at the moment too, +sadly). + +That's a proposal. It has shortcomings too of course; what I find +interesting in this is that: + - it makes Mageia put a few steps into the software patents debate +(instead of only trying to cope with an inconsistent, unpracticable +set of rules that we mostly even don't find legitimate at the very +start); + - it may reveal to be less of a burden than we currently think; it +may be worse; either case, we can adapt from a situation we will have +_experienced_. + +Now, that's nothing more than a proposal. :-p + +Romain +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001691.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001693.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1692">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1692">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1692">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1692">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001693.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001693.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..569db7bc1 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001693.html @@ -0,0 +1,109 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C20101210185407.GG21938%40mars-attacks.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001692.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001695.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>nicolas vigier</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C20101210185407.GG21938%40mars-attacks.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">boklm at mars-attacks.org + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Dec 10 19:54:08 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001692.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001695.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1693">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1693">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1693">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1693">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Fri, 10 Dec 2010, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: + +><i> 2010/12/10 Romain d'Alverny <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">rdalverny at gmail.com</A>>: +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Ok, but you still take into account SP in your answer. :-p (we would +</I>><i> > have come to that, but the idea was to think about it from a naïve, +</I>><i> > software-patent-free perspective). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> If there were no software patents anywhere what would be the issue of +</I>><i> this discussion? +</I>><i> IMHO it makes no sense to discuss something which does not exist +</I>><i> +</I>><i> If Mageia were a project fro French users only we would no have this +</I>><i> discussion. But as it is a worldwide project the probelm exists and +</I>><i> pretending it does not makes no sense, not even from a theoretical +</I>><i> POV. because the theoretical POV is "No SP, no discussion". +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Ok, anyway. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I see the strategy in your proposition but: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> 1. We know from the start that there ARE packages with software which +</I>><i> is patented in some countries. So, the "let's start empty and see what +</I>><i> comes up" is already done with. +</I> +Being patented does not mean that patent is valid and enforceable. + +><i> 2. In some countries mirror maintainers can not wait until somebody +</I>><i> raises his hand, there are lawyers who write nice "cease and desist" +</I>><i> letters, attached is a bill you have to pay. In Germany this is called +</I>><i> "Kostenpflichtige Abmahnung" and has grown to a habit of some +</I>><i> lawyers. +</I>><i> Meaning: you can't wait and see what happens, you have to make sure +</I>><i> that it does not happen from the start. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I mean, opinions about software patents set aside for a minute, +</I>><i> software patents are protected by official law in those countries. You +</I>><i> can not break the law on the basis of "let's see what happens". +</I> +The problem is that we don't know for sure if we violate the law. We +should not be too paranoid about this. Microsoft claims that the Linux +kernel violates 235 of their patents : +<A HREF="http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/05/28/100033867/index.htm">http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/05/28/100033867/index.htm</A> +Should we trust them and remove the kernel from the core repository ? + +I'm wondering how much mirror admins are concerned about patent issues. +If we split the packages between core and "tainted" repositories, how +many will filter it ? If only a few will do it, maybe it's not really +worth it and we can still have enough mirrors. It seems that Debian has +mirrors in many countries, while hosting patented software in its main +repository. + +</PRE> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001692.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001695.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1693">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1693">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1693">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1693">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001694.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001694.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..9907e6657 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001694.html @@ -0,0 +1,127 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C4D027EE8.1000904%40laposte.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001695.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001687.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>andre999</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C4D027EE8.1000904%40laposte.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">andr55 at laposte.net + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Dec 10 20:26:32 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001695.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001687.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1694">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1694">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1694">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1694">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Romain d'Alverny a écrit : +><i> +</I>><i> On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 16:35, Wolfgang Bornath<<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">molch.b at googlemail.com</A>> wrote: +</I>>><i> Isn't this what this whole discussion is about? There ARE legal issues +</I>>><i> with some software users regard as "must have". Now, how do you avoid +</I>>><i> these issues? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> To summarize, strategies: +</I>><i> 1. ignore the issues and see what happens; +</I>><i> 2. ignore the less significant ones; +</I>><i> 3. get to know each of these and manage case by case +</I>><i> 4. other? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> and factor whenever possible and see what happens, update, repeat. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> 1. and 2. are more radical, but are some sort of trial-and-error, risk +</I>><i> management strategies. Ok... looking at it this way won't lead us +</I>><i> further I guess. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Let's try this: what if we consider, at first, that software patents +</I>><i> were a non-issue? (that is, we just consider they are all invalid as +</I>><i> such). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> How would this change/simplify the problem? +</I> +Good approach. + +><i> - for packaging/shipping the distribution +</I> +Evidently easier to package. (One less consideration.) +As well, the problem doesn't exist in France, so Mageia itself won't be +a target. +As I understand, basically only the editors of software have been +pursued in patent-affected countries like the U.S. +(And basically only those with lots of money.) + +><i> - for mirroring it +</I> +Easier if mirrors don't have to consider OPTIONAL repositories. +(But the NUMBER of repositories doesn't matter.) + +Theoretically it would affect mirrors in countries with patents. +Except that in the U.S., one of the most patent-affected countries, +there is no shortage of mirrors, many of which carry patented software +that is being actively pursued against other parties - but the mirrors +themselves are left untouched. + +Note that having identifiable patent-affected repositories would +presumably increase the probability of patent pursuits against a mirror. +But the PLF, with openly identified patent-affected packages, has +several mirrors in the U.S., none of which has been pursued, to my +knowledge. + +As well, there are countries free of software patents on every +continent, in the event that problems arise. +So hosting patent-affected software seems to be a non-issue for mirrors. + +><i> - for using it. +</I> +It doesn't seem that any individual user has been pursued for using +unauthorised patent-affected software. +So using patent-affected software is a non-issue for users. +(Unless they choose to avoid such software, of course.) + +><i> (please don't go "but there _are_ software patents" for now) +</I>(But such arguments are "so much fun" ;) ) + +><i> Romain +</I> +- André + +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001695.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001687.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1694">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1694">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1694">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1694">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001695.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001695.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..2069cd00b --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/001695.html @@ -0,0 +1,158 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C4D028A6C.9010208%40laposte.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001693.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001694.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>andre999</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C4D028A6C.9010208%40laposte.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">andr55 at laposte.net + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Dec 10 21:15:40 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001693.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001694.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1695">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1695">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1695">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1695">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>nicolas vigier a écrit : +><i> +</I>><i> On Fri, 10 Dec 2010, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> 2010/12/10 Romain d'Alverny<<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">rdalverny at gmail.com</A>>: +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> Ok, but you still take into account SP in your answer. :-p (we would +</I>>>><i> have come to that, but the idea was to think about it from a naïve, +</I>>>><i> software-patent-free perspective). +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> If there were no software patents anywhere what would be the issue of +</I>>><i> this discussion? +</I>>><i> IMHO it makes no sense to discuss something which does not exist +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> If Mageia were a project fro French users only we would no have this +</I>>><i> discussion. But as it is a worldwide project the probelm exists and +</I>>><i> pretending it does not makes no sense, not even from a theoretical +</I>>><i> POV. because the theoretical POV is "No SP, no discussion". +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Ok, anyway. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> I see the strategy in your proposition but: +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> 1. We know from the start that there ARE packages with software which +</I>>><i> is patented in some countries. So, the "let's start empty and see what +</I>>><i> comes up" is already done with. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Being patented does not mean that patent is valid and enforceable. +</I> +We should remember that patents are a civil right accorded by rules +differing from country to country. Many countries don't offer patents +on software. +Patent holders have to use the courts to enforce these rights, who often +deny or limit patent holder's claims. +So in addition to any theoretical rights of software patent holders, +there is the consideration "is it worth the money and effort for the +potential gain in royalties" ? +In that, free software (in both senses) has a considerable advantage +compared to other parties who could be considered in infringement of +software patents. + +>><i> 2. In some countries mirror maintainers can not wait until somebody +</I>>><i> raises his hand, there are lawyers who write nice "cease and desist" +</I>>><i> letters, attached is a bill you have to pay. In Germany this is called +</I>>><i> "Kostenpflichtige Abmahnung" and has grown to a habit of some +</I>>><i> lawyers. +</I>>><i> Meaning: you can't wait and see what happens, you have to make sure +</I>>><i> that it does not happen from the start. +</I> +"cease and desist" letters are just warnings. Any attached "bill" would +only have effect if validatated by a court. +As I understand, lawyers have the same habit in the U.S. +Wouldn't the amounts accorded be based on the supposed benefit that the +supposed violator has received ? (At least that is part of the equation +in the U.S.) + +And how does that translate for free software ? +In the U.S., software patent holders have avoided attacking targets +without a lot of financial resources. +The only Linux-associated target I recall is Novell. +Mpeg patents are pursued, but the several PLF mirrors in the U.S., with +openly indicated patented packages, are ignored. + +>><i> I mean, opinions about software patents set aside for a minute, +</I>>><i> software patents are protected by official law in those countries. You +</I>>><i> can not break the law on the basis of "let's see what happens". +</I> +Again, this is not "breaking the law", but potentially infringing on a +civil right. Which must be validated by the courts. + +><i> The problem is that we don't know for sure if we violate the law. We +</I>><i> should not be too paranoid about this. Microsoft claims that the Linux +</I>><i> kernel violates 235 of their patents : +</I>><i> <A HREF="http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/05/28/100033867/index.htm">http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/05/28/100033867/index.htm</A> +</I>><i> Should we trust them and remove the kernel from the core repository ? +</I> +Yes indeed. Off to "tainted" we go :) :) :) + +><i> I'm wondering how much mirror admins are concerned about patent issues. +</I> +In the U.S., not much, and with reason. Not even the PLF mirror sites +there are pursued. +Which is convenient for us in Canada : often the closest mirror is +across the border. + +><i> If we split the packages between core and "tainted" repositories, how +</I>><i> many will filter it ? +</I> +We all know that packagers don't have enough work. Don't we ? ;) + +><i> If only a few will do it, maybe it's not really +</I>><i> worth it and we can still have enough mirrors. It seems that Debian has +</I>><i> mirrors in many countries, while hosting patented software in its main +</I>><i> repository. +</I> +Including the U.S. +Interesting that Debian discussions about patent issues seem to focus on +what will be accepted in U.S. mirrors. Who have yet to be impacted on +patent issues. +It seems that the few spectactular cases against rich players in the +U.S. has distorted the perception of the legal reality there. + +- André +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001693.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001694.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1695">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1695">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1695">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1695">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/author.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/author.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..42349ac88 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/author.html @@ -0,0 +1,122 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 10 December 2010 Archive by author</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>10 December 2010 Archives by author</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Fri Dec 10 11:22:09 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Fri Dec 10 21:15:40 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 15<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="001684.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1684"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001686.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1686"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001691.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1691"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001682.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1682"> </A> +<I>Anssi Hannula +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001683.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1683"> </A> +<I>Buchan Milne +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001689.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1689"> </A> +<I>Buchan Milne +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001687.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1687"> </A> +<I>Ahmad Samir +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001688.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1688"> </A> +<I>Ahmad Samir +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001681.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1681"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001694.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1694"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001695.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1695"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001685.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1685"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001690.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1690"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001692.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1692"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001693.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1693"> </A> +<I>nicolas vigier +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Fri Dec 10 21:15:40 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri Dec 10 21:15:54 CET 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/date.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/date.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..9851afdfc --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/date.html @@ -0,0 +1,122 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 10 December 2010 Archive by date</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>10 December 2010 Archives by date</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Fri Dec 10 11:22:09 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Fri Dec 10 21:15:40 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 15<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="001681.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1681"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001682.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1682"> </A> +<I>Anssi Hannula +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001683.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1683"> </A> +<I>Buchan Milne +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001684.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1684"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001685.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1685"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001686.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1686"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001687.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1687"> </A> +<I>Ahmad Samir +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001688.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1688"> </A> +<I>Ahmad Samir +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001689.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1689"> </A> +<I>Buchan Milne +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001690.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1690"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001691.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1691"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001692.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1692"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001693.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1693"> </A> +<I>nicolas vigier +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001694.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1694"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001695.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1695"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Fri Dec 10 21:15:40 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri Dec 10 21:15:54 CET 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/index.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/index.html new file mode 120000 index 000000000..db4b46f72 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/index.html @@ -0,0 +1 @@ +thread.html
\ No newline at end of file diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/subject.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/subject.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..bf715a07c --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/subject.html @@ -0,0 +1,122 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 10 December 2010 Archive by subject</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>10 December 2010 Archives by subject</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Fri Dec 10 11:22:09 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Fri Dec 10 21:15:40 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 15<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="001681.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1681"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001682.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1682"> </A> +<I>Anssi Hannula +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001683.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1683"> </A> +<I>Buchan Milne +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001684.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1684"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001685.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1685"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001686.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1686"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001687.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1687"> </A> +<I>Ahmad Samir +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001688.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1688"> </A> +<I>Ahmad Samir +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001689.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1689"> </A> +<I>Buchan Milne +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001690.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1690"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001691.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1691"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001692.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1692"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001693.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1693"> </A> +<I>nicolas vigier +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001694.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1694"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="001695.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1695"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Fri Dec 10 21:15:40 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri Dec 10 21:15:54 CET 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/thread.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/thread.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..20dc42ddc --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101210/thread.html @@ -0,0 +1,143 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 10 December 2010 Archive by thread</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>10 December 2010 Archives by thread</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Fri Dec 10 11:22:09 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Fri Dec 10 21:15:40 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 15<p> + <ul> + +<!--0 01291976529- --> +<LI><A HREF="001681.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1681"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01291976529-01291982101- --> +<LI><A HREF="001682.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1682"> </A> +<I>Anssi Hannula +</I> + +<!--1 01291976529-01291988167- --> +<LI><A HREF="001683.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1683"> </A> +<I>Buchan Milne +</I> + +<UL> +<!--2 01291976529-01291988167-01291995309- --> +<LI><A HREF="001684.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1684"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<UL> +<!--3 01291976529-01291988167-01291995309-01291995950- --> +<LI><A HREF="001685.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1685"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<!--3 01291976529-01291988167-01291995309-01291995950-01291997044- --> +<LI><A HREF="001686.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1686"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<!--3 01291976529-01291988167-01291995309-01291995950-01291997044-01292003087- --> +<LI><A HREF="001690.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1690"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<!--3 01291976529-01291988167-01291995309-01291995950-01291997044-01292003087-01292004859- --> +<LI><A HREF="001691.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1691"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<!--3 01291976529-01291988167-01291995309-01291995950-01291997044-01292003087-01292004859-01292006258- --> +<LI><A HREF="001692.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1692"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<!--3 01291976529-01291988167-01291995309-01291995950-01291997044-01292003087-01292004859-01292007248- --> +<LI><A HREF="001693.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1693"> </A> +<I>nicolas vigier +</I> + +<!--3 01291976529-01291988167-01291995309-01291995950-01291997044-01292003087-01292004859-01292007248-01292012140- --> +<LI><A HREF="001695.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1695"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<!--3 01291976529-01291988167-01291995309-01291995950-01292009192- --> +<LI><A HREF="001694.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1694"> </A> +<I>andre999 +</I> + +<!--3 01291976529-01291988167-01291995309-01291998437- --> +<LI><A HREF="001687.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1687"> </A> +<I>Ahmad Samir +</I> + +<!--3 01291976529-01291988167-01291995309-01291998437-01291998524- --> +<LI><A HREF="001688.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1688"> </A> +<I>Ahmad Samir +</I> + +<!--3 01291976529-01291988167-01291995309-01291999027- --> +<LI><A HREF="001689.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A><A NAME="1689"> </A> +<I>Buchan Milne +</I> + +</UL> +</UL> +</UL> + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Fri Dec 10 21:15:40 CET 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri Dec 10 21:15:54 CET 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + |