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+ <H1>[Mageia-dev] Release cycle - what is actually POSSIBLE?</H1>
+ <B>Romain d'Alverny</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Release%20cycle%20-%20what%20is%20actually%20POSSIBLE%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTikcSMbG75hj3cJjwusbTMPWhBo3AtQ5Bt%2Bfkf%3DW%40mail.gmail.com%3E"
+ TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Release cycle - what is actually POSSIBLE?">rdalverny at gmail.com
+ </A><BR>
+ <I>Mon Oct 11 10:55:26 CEST 2010</I>
+ <P><UL>
+
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+<PRE>Le 9 oct. 2010 &#224; 09:57, Margot &lt;<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">margot at otfordduckscomputers.co.uk</A>&gt; a &#233;crit :
+&gt;<i> There has been a lengthy debate about users' wishes for the Mageia
+</I>&gt;<i> release cycle, but one important voice has been missing from this
+</I>&gt;<i> debate: the collective voice of the devs who will be responsible
+</I>&gt;<i> for producing the releases.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Before we start having polls and surveys, it would be useful to
+</I>&gt;<i> hear from our devs.
+</I>
+Before devs may comment on the technical in's and out's of a proposal,
+there must exist such a specific proposal, understood and agreed on by
+several people. To this day, we only have discussions, so a lot of
+different views and tracks coming from a common statement.
+
+The wiki page I drafted a few days ago
+(<A HREF="http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=rollingdebate">http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=rollingdebate</A> - maybe misnamed in
+this regard) serves as a draft for this documentation/proposal
+purpose:
+ - first gather views on perceived issues with the release/update
+lifecycle of the system and apps;
+ - then dive in depth into these to get common issues and understand
+the real bottom line (that may not ne obvious as of today)
+ - then have proposals + analysis of feasability.
+
+This involves makers and users at all steps. That requires not
+discussing specificities of solutions before having agreed on the
+problem to solve.
+
+Without that (making sure all think about the same thing in a
+documented way), the discussion will stay cloudy. However no proposal
+has been formally posted over there, so it may have been wrongly
+understood as a method or it may just not be a fit here? I don't know.
+However, if you _do_ have such a proposal to post, please take the
+time to post it as an article somewhere. Or propose another structured
+way.
+
+As Oliver reminded it, the first milestone we have is releasing our
+first ISO to test-drive the whole infrastructure and project
+organisation.
+
+That includes test-driving methods to state, discuss, refine
+issues/solutions or new ideas and then decide to put them into
+production or not (what we could do right here, not relying only on ml
+conversations but on stable docs too).
+
+Cheers,
+
+Romain
+</PRE>
+
+
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+ <H1>[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?</H1>
+ <B>vfmBOFH</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTika7V_kY6ZymxpL72z0gsD%3DmUWnYB8ZMvxMYGzn%40mail.gmail.com%3E"
+ TITLE="[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?">vfmbofh at gmail.com
+ </A><BR>
+ <I>Mon Oct 11 17:27:41 CEST 2010</I>
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+<PRE>2010/10/6 vfmBOFH &lt;<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">vfmbofh at gmail.com</A>&gt;
+
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> 2010/10/1 atilla ontas &lt;<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">tarakbumba at gmail.com</A>&gt;
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> I'm just wondering if we follow Mandriva's release cycle model. Every
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> 6th months a release or one year and one release. I think we should
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> make one release in one year. By doing so devs and translators won't
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> be in rush in every 6 months. Also there are major changes like
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> systemd/upstart; those system related things will be more mature in a
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> year to use. It makes the distro more stable and decraese mirrors
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> space waste.
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> One more thing. Do we follow Mandriva's release naming scheme? I.e. do
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> we call our first release 2011.x ? I don't like this naming scheme and
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> suggesting using number of release as naming like Mageia 1.0 or using
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> code names.
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> What's your opinion?
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Hi all.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> At this time, there is a survey asking to the blogdrake's community what
+</I>&gt;<i> kind of release cycle they prefer. This survey will be active until the
+</I>&gt;<i> weekend and I think this could be an acceptable look about community
+</I>&gt;<i> preferences.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> We must keep on mind we're creating a user-oriented distro, so we must be
+</I>&gt;<i> stay in touch about their preferences.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Cheers
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>Hi all again.
+
+As i said, there's the results of the poll published in Blogdrake:
+
+58% of votes are for maintain the same mandriva's release cycle scheme (same
+scheme, not parallel releases) There are several opinions about the
+periodicity of the releases: six months, eight months, annual... all options
+are more or less the same level of preference.
+
+24% has chosen the &quot;Rolling-light&quot; model. as in the traditional model, there
+are opinions that support the annual release, six months or eight months.
+But this option, is dominated by the annual release of the &quot;core&quot;.
+
+15% supports the &quot;pure-Rolling&quot; model. There's nothing to say about release
+dates.
+
+Surprisingly, there is also a minority support to a model similar to the
+&quot;Debian way&quot;. I must confess that this last option on the poll was started
+as a joke, because Blogdrake's members often suffer &quot;versionitis&quot;. But there
+are the votes (3%)...
+
+So, these are the results of the survey. Apparently, the Blogdrake's
+community is closer to a model &quot;release + backports&quot;.
+
+I think it should be noted (as far as possible) the preferences of the
+community, in addition to technical and logistical constraints. Maybe with
+similar polls in other local communities?
+
+Cheers.
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+ <B>Wolfgang Bornath</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTinbjO5ZSS-t2NS6gqhRyXtOMWZ5odsaOaX2UthK%40mail.gmail.com%3E"
+ TITLE="[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?">molch.b at googlemail.com
+ </A><BR>
+ <I>Mon Oct 11 18:06:40 CEST 2010</I>
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+<PRE>2010/10/11 vfmBOFH &lt;<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">vfmbofh at gmail.com</A>&gt;:
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> I think it should be noted (as far as possible) the preferences of the
+</I>&gt;<i> community, in addition to technical and logistical constraints. Maybe with
+</I>&gt;<i> similar polls in other local communities?
+</I>
+Will do in MandrivaUser.de because I also think it is important to ask
+the community.
+But I'm also aware that the result will not be near the real opinion
+of the community. The percentage of active members of the community is
+quite small, so the result of a poll will be only that of a small
+percentage of the community. I think the technical and logistic
+reasons and benefits/constraints may be much stronger advocates of one
+or the other release system.
+</PRE>
+
+
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+ <B>vfmBOFH</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTinXT1-N-UPwoFLn%3DVk3WfrO%2B2NAc%2B-Px4hU_ecY%40mail.gmail.com%3E"
+ TITLE="[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?">vfmbofh at gmail.com
+ </A><BR>
+ <I>Mon Oct 11 18:18:29 CEST 2010</I>
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+<PRE>2010/10/11 Wolfgang Bornath &lt;<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">molch.b at googlemail.com</A>&gt;
+
+&gt;<i> 2010/10/11 vfmBOFH &lt;<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">vfmbofh at gmail.com</A>&gt;:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; I think it should be noted (as far as possible) the preferences of the
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; community, in addition to technical and logistical constraints. Maybe
+</I>&gt;<i> with
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; similar polls in other local communities?
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Will do in MandrivaUser.de because I also think it is important to ask
+</I>&gt;<i> the community.
+</I>&gt;<i> But I'm also aware that the result will not be near the real opinion
+</I>&gt;<i> of the community. The percentage of active members of the community is
+</I>&gt;<i> quite small, so the result of a poll will be only that of a small
+</I>&gt;<i> percentage of the community. I think the technical and logistic
+</I>&gt;<i> reasons and benefits/constraints may be much stronger advocates of one
+</I>&gt;<i> or the other release system.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>
+I agree.
+
+But, despite it's a small precentage, it's a percentage of the &quot;actual&quot; and
+&quot;active&quot; members of the community.
+
+BTW, some of blogdrake's voters is a former user / admin who was MIA for
+three years or so. Don't underestimate the interest generated by mageia's
+project :)
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+ <B>Wolfgang Bornath</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTi%3DkwZEGH92PTxAraTr1T_zrHmUCxeVQ_zb1hMiQ%40mail.gmail.com%3E"
+ TITLE="[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?">molch.b at googlemail.com
+ </A><BR>
+ <I>Mon Oct 11 19:02:16 CEST 2010</I>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>2010/10/11 vfmBOFH &lt;<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">vfmbofh at gmail.com</A>&gt;:
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> BTW, some of blogdrake's voters is a former user / admin who was MIA for
+</I>&gt;<i> three years or so. Don't underestimate the interest generated by mageia's
+</I>&gt;<i> project :)
+</I>
+Ha, After the news about Mageia I received a mail from somebody I did
+not meet/read f&#252;r 10 years! This news really caused some vibes :)
+Just started the poll at MandrivaUser.de and will let it roll for 5
+days - hopefully our packagers can add some details to my explanations
+of the options.
+
+BTW: Found one reason not to use a pure rolling release which has not
+been mentioned before: PR!
+With a release every 6/8/12 months you can shout it out into the
+world: &quot;The NEW Mageia is out&quot;&quot; which always catches not only those
+who were waiting but also curious people who never heard about Mageia.
+You don't have that kind of PR for a rolling distro which never puts
+out a real new release.
+</PRE>
+
+
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+ <H1>[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?</H1>
+ <B>atilla ontas</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTi%3DDNU3oowXmZdJkvH6qpo3YtWinjLA5DZo6uWii%40mail.gmail.com%3E"
+ TITLE="[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?">tarakbumba at gmail.com
+ </A><BR>
+ <I>Mon Oct 11 19:40:01 CEST 2010</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001079.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>I have started a poll too, on Mandriva Turkiye. Let's collect our
+community wishes on release cycle matter.
+</PRE>
+
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+ <ul>
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+
+ <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list...
+ </a></b></li>
+ </ul>
+ <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Mon Oct 11 10:55:26 CEST 2010</i><br>
+ <b>Ending:</b> <i>Mon Oct 11 19:40:01 CEST 2010</i><br>
+ <b>Messages:</b> 6<p>
+ <ul>
+
+<LI><A HREF="001077.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?
+</A><A NAME="1077">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Wolfgang Bornath
+</I>
+
+<LI><A HREF="001079.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?
+</A><A NAME="1079">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Wolfgang Bornath
+</I>
+
+<LI><A HREF="001075.html">[Mageia-dev] Release cycle - what is actually POSSIBLE?
+</A><A NAME="1075">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Romain d'Alverny
+</I>
+
+<LI><A HREF="001080.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?
+</A><A NAME="1080">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>atilla ontas
+</I>
+
+<LI><A HREF="001076.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?
+</A><A NAME="1076">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>vfmBOFH
+</I>
+
+<LI><A HREF="001078.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?
+</A><A NAME="1078">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>vfmBOFH
+</I>
+
+ </ul>
+ <p>
+ <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a>
+ <i>Mon Oct 11 19:40:01 CEST 2010</i><br>
+ <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Mon Oct 11 19:40:05 CEST 2010</i>
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+
+ <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list...
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+ </ul>
+ <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Mon Oct 11 10:55:26 CEST 2010</i><br>
+ <b>Ending:</b> <i>Mon Oct 11 19:40:01 CEST 2010</i><br>
+ <b>Messages:</b> 6<p>
+ <ul>
+
+<LI><A HREF="001075.html">[Mageia-dev] Release cycle - what is actually POSSIBLE?
+</A><A NAME="1075">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Romain d'Alverny
+</I>
+
+<LI><A HREF="001076.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?
+</A><A NAME="1076">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>vfmBOFH
+</I>
+
+<LI><A HREF="001077.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?
+</A><A NAME="1077">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Wolfgang Bornath
+</I>
+
+<LI><A HREF="001078.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?
+</A><A NAME="1078">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>vfmBOFH
+</I>
+
+<LI><A HREF="001079.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?
+</A><A NAME="1079">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Wolfgang Bornath
+</I>
+
+<LI><A HREF="001080.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?
+</A><A NAME="1080">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>atilla ontas
+</I>
+
+ </ul>
+ <p>
+ <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a>
+ <i>Mon Oct 11 19:40:01 CEST 2010</i><br>
+ <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Mon Oct 11 19:40:05 CEST 2010</i>
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+ <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
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+
+ <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list...
+ </a></b></li>
+ </ul>
+ <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Mon Oct 11 10:55:26 CEST 2010</i><br>
+ <b>Ending:</b> <i>Mon Oct 11 19:40:01 CEST 2010</i><br>
+ <b>Messages:</b> 6<p>
+ <ul>
+
+<LI><A HREF="001076.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?
+</A><A NAME="1076">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>vfmBOFH
+</I>
+
+<LI><A HREF="001077.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?
+</A><A NAME="1077">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Wolfgang Bornath
+</I>
+
+<LI><A HREF="001078.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?
+</A><A NAME="1078">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>vfmBOFH
+</I>
+
+<LI><A HREF="001079.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?
+</A><A NAME="1079">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Wolfgang Bornath
+</I>
+
+<LI><A HREF="001080.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?
+</A><A NAME="1080">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>atilla ontas
+</I>
+
+<LI><A HREF="001075.html">[Mageia-dev] Release cycle - what is actually POSSIBLE?
+</A><A NAME="1075">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Romain d'Alverny
+</I>
+
+ </ul>
+ <p>
+ <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a>
+ <i>Mon Oct 11 19:40:01 CEST 2010</i><br>
+ <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Mon Oct 11 19:40:05 CEST 2010</i>
+ <p>
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+ <ul>
+ <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+
+ <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
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+
+ <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list...
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+ </ul>
+ <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Mon Oct 11 10:55:26 CEST 2010</i><br>
+ <b>Ending:</b> <i>Mon Oct 11 19:40:01 CEST 2010</i><br>
+ <b>Messages:</b> 6<p>
+ <ul>
+
+<!--0 01286787326- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001075.html">[Mageia-dev] Release cycle - what is actually POSSIBLE?
+</A><A NAME="1075">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Romain d'Alverny
+</I>
+
+<!--0 01286810861- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001076.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?
+</A><A NAME="1076">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>vfmBOFH
+</I>
+
+<UL>
+<!--1 01286810861-01286813200- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001077.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?
+</A><A NAME="1077">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Wolfgang Bornath
+</I>
+
+<UL>
+<!--2 01286810861-01286813200-01286813909- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001078.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?
+</A><A NAME="1078">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>vfmBOFH
+</I>
+
+<UL>
+<!--3 01286810861-01286813200-01286813909-01286816536- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001079.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?
+</A><A NAME="1079">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Wolfgang Bornath
+</I>
+
+<!--3 01286810861-01286813200-01286813909-01286816536-01286818801- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001080.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?
+</A><A NAME="1080">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>atilla ontas
+</I>
+
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+ </ul>
+ <p>
+ <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a>
+ <i>Mon Oct 11 19:40:01 CEST 2010</i><br>
+ <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Mon Oct 11 19:40:05 CEST 2010</i>
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