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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000232.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000232.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..2bcf465a7 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000232.html @@ -0,0 +1,92 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CPine.LNX.4.44.1009252359230.22959-100000%40outpost-priv%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000233.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?</H1> + <B>Tux99</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CPine.LNX.4.44.1009252359230.22959-100000%40outpost-priv%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?">tux99-mga at uridium.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 00:12:54 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000233.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#232">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#232">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#232">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#232">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sat, 25 Sep 2010, Giuseppe Ghibò wrote: +><i> +</I>><i> 2010/9/25 Tux99 <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">tux99-mga at uridium.org</A>> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Again, you are missing the point, these machines are not desktop PCs +</I>><i> > running a GUI, any modern Linux distro still runs perfectly fine with +</I>><i> > 64-128MB and 10-15 year old cpus when used for many headless purposes. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> +</I>><i> For instance? Apart DSL which distro can you start the installer with 64MB +</I>><i> memory only (use 1GB swap?)? Were you able to install the 2010.1? +</I> +Centos 4 installs and runs perfectly fine on a Pentium II 350Mhz with +128MB RAM, I know it because I installed such a box for a friend as home +server running 24/7 (with DNS server, apache and some other stuff). +I didn't try Mandriva since it lacks long term support. + +><i> Common where? There are schools and universities are dismitting hardware +</I>><i> like with P4/2.4Ghz and 512MB RAM for whatever use (either server or +</I>><i> desktop). And even older hardware no-ROHS, which should be dismantled +</I>><i> carefully. +</I> +You are seeing everything from a limited european POV, the P4 you say is +being thrown away here is a top-end system in some other countries. +Mageia is supposed to be for the whole world, not just EU/US/BRICs. + +With regards to ISA cards, you can even still buy brand new modern mobos +with ISA slots right here in Europe, they are still common for +industrial uses: +<A HREF="http://www.spectra.de/produkte/114184/web/spectra/Datenblatt-PMB-601LF.pdf?CFID=92074854-8638-47f6-a589-6517cde18fb1&CFTOKEN=0">http://www.spectra.de/produkte/114184/web/spectra/Datenblatt-PMB-601LF.pdf?CFID=92074854-8638-47f6-a589-6517cde18fb1&CFTOKEN=0</A> + +><i> I'm not speaking about exclusion but about including or optimizing for arch +</I>><i> and hardware that NOBODY will use anymore, because can't. +</I> +The optimization you are talking about (which will increase +performance by a few percentage points at most, not noticeable at all +in practice) means that the distro will be unusable for others. + +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000233.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#232">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#232">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#232">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#232">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000233.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000233.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..5fb603ee9 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000233.html @@ -0,0 +1,132 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTi%3DZE7O9teUoR2%2BP13Xen5eZ6ksQ16TXSNJZWg75%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000232.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000237.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?</H1> + <B>Giuseppe Ghibò</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTi%3DZE7O9teUoR2%2BP13Xen5eZ6ksQ16TXSNJZWg75%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?">ghibomgx at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 01:09:40 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000232.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000237.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#233">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#233">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#233">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#233">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>2010/9/26 Tux99 <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">tux99-mga at uridium.org</A>> + +><i> memory only (use 1GB swap?)? Were you able to install the 2010.1? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Centos 4 installs and runs perfectly fine on a Pentium II 350Mhz with +</I>><i> 128MB RAM, I know it because I installed such a box for a friend as home +</I>><i> server running 24/7 (with DNS server, apache and some other stuff). +</I>><i> I didn't try Mandriva since it lacks long term support. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>Centos4 IS NOT a modern distro. It is a LTS started in 2005 and so it +maintains 2005's original skeleton of kernel, gcc, glibc and X. That's FIVE +years old. As example MDV 2007.1, which is 3 years old, was still very +usable and responsive on my P4/ATI (maybe not as much as stable with 3D +acceleration), but 2010.0 ISN'T. + + +><i> > Common where? There are schools and universities are dismitting hardware +</I>><i> > like with P4/2.4Ghz and 512MB RAM for whatever use (either server or +</I>><i> > desktop). And even older hardware no-ROHS, which should be dismantled +</I>><i> > carefully. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> You are seeing everything from a limited european POV, the P4 you say is +</I>><i> being thrown away here is a top-end system in some other countries. +</I>><i> Mageia is supposed to be for the whole world, not just EU/US/BRICs. +</I>><i> +</I> +I don't want to deprive the fun of building a router or a firewall from an +old P133/64 with two ethernet cards, or some mediabox, but often you can't +(and sometimes you pay of energy power in a year much more than getting some +30-50E linksys ARM linux based router. And when soemone try such kind of +attempts in the real world with your distro, will be very disappointed of +failures. That's why I in some way asked a survey of oldest hardware based +on own experiences. + + +><i> With regards to ISA cards, you can even still buy brand new modern mobos +</I>><i> with ISA slots right here in Europe, they are still common for +</I>><i> industrial uses: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> <A HREF="http://www.spectra.de/produkte/114184/web/spectra/Datenblatt-PMB-601LF.pdf?CFID=92074854-8638-47f6-a589-6517cde18fb1&CFTOKEN=0">http://www.spectra.de/produkte/114184/web/spectra/Datenblatt-PMB-601LF.pdf?CFID=92074854-8638-47f6-a589-6517cde18fb1&CFTOKEN=0</A> +</I>><i> +</I> +Very interesting, but will such "industrial use" will be target for Mageia +(BTW, certainly socket 775 CPU will support SSE and SSE2...)? If they have +an ISA slot, I guess is for maintaning the compatibility with some old fancy +(and maybe custom) card, certainly not for an ISA ethernet card that can be +easily replaced with a cheap PCI one or the one on board. + + +><i> > I'm not speaking about exclusion but about including or optimizing for +</I>><i> arch +</I>><i> > and hardware that NOBODY will use anymore, because can't. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> The optimization you are talking about (which will increase +</I>><i> performance by a few percentage points at most, not noticeable at all +</I>><i> in practice) means that the distro will be unusable for others. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>Not exactly. I'm not talking in just using -march=<something> but in also +pushing -mfpmath=sse -msse (and maybe -msse2) , which should be much more +than JUST 1-2% (1-2% is usually the benchmark tolerance)...Indeed the +original idea was of having real .i586, .k6, .k7.rpm, .viac3, .viac7.rpm RPM +packages, at least for the core ones: some time ago, when I was fighting +with having a non-crashing kernel for the dedibox, I had started adding such +"dialects" to the RPM macros (but problems were on the glibc package), but +being realistic I think it's a lot of work and there aren't the resources, +so a choice of the default flags should be done. + +Bye +Giuseppe. +-------------- next part -------------- +An HTML attachment was scrubbed... +URL: </pipermail/mageia-dev/attachments/20100926/7a9fabaf/attachment-0001.html> +</PRE> + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000232.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000237.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? 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+</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000236.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#234">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#234">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#234">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#234">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>An HTML attachment was scrubbed... +URL: </pipermail/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/c79acd86/attachment.html> +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000239.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000236.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#234">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#234">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#234">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#234">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000235.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000235.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..e49b4e60c --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000235.html @@ -0,0 +1,97 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C201009260116.57163.r.h.michel%2Bmageia%40gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000266.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000239.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?</H1> + <B>Renaud MICHEL</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C201009260116.57163.r.h.michel%2Bmageia%40gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?">r.h.michel+mageia at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 01:16:57 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000266.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000239.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#235">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#235">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#235">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#235">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Hello +On dimanche 26 septembre 2010 at 00:12, Tux99 wrote : +><i> > I'm not speaking about exclusion but about including or optimizing for +</I>><i> > arch and hardware that NOBODY will use anymore, because can't. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> The optimization you are talking about (which will increase +</I>><i> performance by a few percentage points at most, not noticeable at all +</I>><i> in practice) means that the distro will be unusable for others. +</I> +Would it be possible to have the base system and non-graphical tools +compiled for i586, and the big desktops (KDE, gnome) and multimedia +applications compiled for i686 or better? + +Would it be possible, in the (yet to be setup) build system that each +package define the minimum architecture it want to support? +In such a system, the maintainers could decide if it is worth to provide a +more optimized package or if the compatibility with older hardware should be +maintained. + +I don't know if it is possible to mix i586 libraries with i686 programs, +would this be a problem? + +-- +Renaud Michel +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000266.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000239.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#235">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#235">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#235">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#235">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000236.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000236.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..4d02f6bd7 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000236.html @@ -0,0 +1,136 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimX%3DSV4nH8RrdgJ0ehzmrXU4xsPA0MAzgpXPvGU%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000234.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000238.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?</H1> + <B>Adjamilton Medeiros de Almeida Júnior</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimX%3DSV4nH8RrdgJ0ehzmrXU4xsPA0MAzgpXPvGU%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?">ajunior at brasifort.com.br + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 01:57:40 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000234.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000238.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#236">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#236">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#236">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#236">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>I fully Agree. +I'm Brazilian. I see many peoples here that uses old PC's and notebooks with +simple configuration. I think that Mageia can have an version lite, however +not now. In the moment we must keep the focus on a single desktop version +(586) . + +Júnior + +Em 25 de setembro de 2010 21:45, André Machado <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">afmachado at dcemail.com</A>>escreveu: + +><i> > Common where? There are schools and universities are dismitting hardware +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > like with P4/2.4Ghz and 512MB RAM for whatever use (either server or +</I>><i> > desktop). And even older hardware no-ROHS, which should be dismantled +</I>><i> > carefully. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> You are seeing everything from a limited european POV, the P4 you say is +</I>><i> being thrown away here is a top-end system in some other countries. +</I>><i> Mageia is supposed to be for the whole world, not just EU/US/BRICs. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I don't want to deprive the fun of building a router or a firewall from an +</I>><i> old P133/64 with two ethernet cards, or some mediabox, but often you can't +</I>><i> (and sometimes you pay of energy power in a year much more than getting some +</I>><i> 30-50E linksys ARM linux based router. And when soemone try such kind of +</I>><i> attempts in the real world with your distro, will be very disappointed of +</I>><i> failures. That's why I in some way asked a survey of oldest hardware based +</I>><i> on own experiences. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I fully agree, At "first world" countries, Like Europe ones or USA, people +</I>><i> can buy the most recet PCS, but at "Thrird world" countries - Like Brazil, +</I>><i> what is part of BRIC, or many Africa nations - this is very unacessible by +</I>><i> population, even with government programs, like Brazil's "Computador para +</I>><i> Todos" (computer for everyone) that sells low-cost PCs with inferior +</I>><i> hardware, often leftover stock lines earlier from the U.S. and Europe. In +</I>><i> many department shops here, for example, Core2Duo is sold as if it were +</I>><i> the last flavor of the moment. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> If, where you are, Pentium I - 4 and 32-bit platform is a museum thing, in +</I>><i> most World parts, is not. I know people that, nowadays, uses a Pentium 200 +</I>><i> with 64MB RAM as main computer. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Despite Mageia main target be current computers, we must think in these +</I>><i> people; 32-bit will not die anytime soon. Then: Do we need compile 32-bit +</I>><i> edition as i586 - and support Pentium and above, i686 - and support Pentium +</I>><i> Pro and above, or do a Mageia Lite edition? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> [PS: I did not break the thread this time, broke?] +</I>><i> <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev</A>> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> ------------------------------ +</I>><i> Washington DC's Largest FREE Email service. ---> <A HREF="http://www.DCemail.com---">http://www.DCemail.com---</A>> A Washington Online Community Member ---> +</I>><i> <A HREF="http://www.DCpages.com">http://www.DCpages.com</A> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> _______________________________________________ +</I>><i> Mageia-dev mailing list +</I>><i> <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">Mageia-dev at mageia.org</A> +</I>><i> <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev</A> +</I>><i> +</I>-------------- next part -------------- +An HTML attachment was scrubbed... +URL: </pipermail/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/8b8e39b9/attachment.html> +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000234.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000238.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#236">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#236">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#236">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#236">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000237.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000237.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..3f88aba69 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000237.html @@ -0,0 +1,114 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CPine.LNX.4.44.1009260145190.22959-100000%40outpost-priv%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000233.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000248.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?</H1> + <B>Tux99</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CPine.LNX.4.44.1009260145190.22959-100000%40outpost-priv%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?">tux99-mga at uridium.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 02:01:42 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000233.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000248.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#237">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#237">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#237">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#237">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sun, 26 Sep 2010, Giuseppe Ghibò wrote: + +><i> Centos4 IS NOT a modern distro. It is a LTS started in 2005 and so it +</I>><i> maintains 2005's original skeleton of kernel, gcc, glibc and X. That's FIVE +</I>><i> years old. +</I> +I'm quite sure Centos5/RHEL5 would install and run fine on it too, +Debian would almost certainly too, the point is when you don't +install/use a GUI, Linux still can run fine on very old low end +hardware. + + +><i> As example MDV 2007.1, which is 3 years old, was still very +</I>><i> usable and responsive on my P4/ATI (maybe not as much as stable with 3D +</I>><i> acceleration), but 2010.0 ISN'T. +</I> +Again, you are missing the point, you are talking about desktop/GUI use! +Computers get used for a lot of other purposes, not just desktop/GUI use! + + +><i> That's why I in some way asked a survey of oldest hardware based +</I>><i> on own experiences. +</I> +Well, my oldest hardware that I still have working is a dual cpu +Pentium 233MMX (the original i586) with 384MB RAM (currently has 2008.1 +on it) and a VIA C3 (samuel2 core, i586 since it lacks CMOV) box with +512MB RAM which has mdv 2010.1 installed on it and works fine for it's +purpose too (headless home server running 24/7 and only uses 10Watts). + + +><i> Very interesting, but will such "industrial use" will be target for Mageia +</I>><i> (BTW, certainly socket 775 CPU will support SSE and SSE2...)? If they have +</I>><i> an ISA slot, I guess is for maintaning the compatibility with some old fancy +</I>><i> (and maybe custom) card, certainly not for an ISA ethernet card that can be +</I>><i> easily replaced with a cheap PCI one or the one on board. +</I> +That was just one example, there are many other situations were you +still find ISA hardware, especially in developing countries. + + +><i> Not exactly. I'm not talking in just using -march=<something> but in also +</I>><i> pushing -mfpmath=sse -msse (and maybe -msse2) , which should be much more +</I>><i> than JUST 1-2% (1-2% is usually the benchmark tolerance)... +</I> +AFAIK SSE will only help with media apps (mplayer, etc) and they do +autodedect already anyway so in practice nothing is gained. + + +><i> being realistic I think it's a lot of work and there aren't the resources, +</I>><i> so a choice of the default flags should be done. +</I> +Agreed that would be too much work for very little benefit, the default +flags of Mandriva are just fine since they still work on i586. + +We could have some selected packages also as i686 (like MIB does and +like the kernel already is), like for example all the media players, but +making the whole distro i686 would break too many uses of it. + +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000233.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000248.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#237">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#237">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#237">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#237">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000238.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000238.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..b6f7ab03b --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000238.html @@ -0,0 +1,99 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CPine.LNX.4.44.1009260207410.22959-100000%40outpost-priv%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000236.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000240.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?</H1> + <B>Tux99</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CPine.LNX.4.44.1009260207410.22959-100000%40outpost-priv%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?">tux99-mga at uridium.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 02:16:35 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000236.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000240.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#238">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#238">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#238">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#238">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sat, 25 Sep 2010, [utf-8] André Machado wrote: + +><i> Despite Mageia main target be current computers, we must think in +</I>><i> these people; 32-bit will not die anytime soon. Then: Do we need +</I>><i> compile 32-bit edition as i586 - and support Pentium and above, i686 - +</I>><i> and support Pentium Pro and above, or do a Mageia Lite edition? +</I> +That's a very good point you make there, why are we talking about +i586/i686 at all since the best optimization for a modern PC is to +install the 64bit version?! + +We should have: +Mageia 32bit i586, which is ideal for old PCs +Mageia 64bit, which is ideal for modern PC (which are 64bit capable) + +Why do we need 32bit with i686 optimizations at all? + +Anyone who wants a modern system optimized for speed should use the +64bit version anyway, since that's much faster than any 32bit with +i686 optimizations. + +Also AFAIK the Atom runs faster with i586 than i686 because it doesn't +have out-of-order execution. + +So i686 would make Mageia slower on Atom netbooks. + +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000236.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000240.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#238">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#238">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#238">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#238">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000239.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000239.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..7eb878129 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000239.html @@ -0,0 +1,103 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C1285462415.26436.292.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000235.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000234.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?</H1> + <B>Michael Scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C1285462415.26436.292.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 02:53:35 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000235.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000234.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#239">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#239">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#239">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#239">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le dimanche 26 septembre 2010 à 01:16 +0200, Renaud MICHEL a écrit : +><i> Hello +</I>><i> On dimanche 26 septembre 2010 at 00:12, Tux99 wrote : +</I>><i> > > I'm not speaking about exclusion but about including or optimizing for +</I>><i> > > arch and hardware that NOBODY will use anymore, because can't. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > The optimization you are talking about (which will increase +</I>><i> > performance by a few percentage points at most, not noticeable at all +</I>><i> > in practice) means that the distro will be unusable for others. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Would it be possible to have the base system and non-graphical tools +</I>><i> compiled for i586, and the big desktops (KDE, gnome) and multimedia +</I>><i> applications compiled for i686 or better? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Would it be possible, in the (yet to be setup) build system that each +</I>><i> package define the minimum architecture it want to support? +</I>><i> In such a system, the maintainers could decide if it is worth to provide a +</I>><i> more optimized package or if the compatibility with older hardware should be +</I>><i> maintained. +</I> +The idea of i686 to i586 was already discussed to death in the past : +<A HREF="http://ideas.mandriva.com/en/idees/show.php?id=77">http://ideas.mandriva.com/en/idees/show.php?id=77</A> + +Yet, no one gave real numbers in one year, nor on the previous cooker +threads. Until there is real way to measure improvement ( and by real, I +mean nothing related to a variation of <A HREF="http://greenfly.net/mes.html">http://greenfly.net/mes.html</A> ), I +think all discussion will be a little bit useless. + + +-- +Michael Scherer + +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000235.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000234.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#239">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#239">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#239">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#239">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000240.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000240.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..99c480a41 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000240.html @@ -0,0 +1,88 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3Cop.vjmascixn7mcit%40hodgins.homeip.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000238.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000245.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?</H1> + <B>David W. Hodgins</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3Cop.vjmascixn7mcit%40hodgins.homeip.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?">davidwhodgins at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 04:06:03 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000238.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000245.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#240">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#240">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#240">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#240">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sat, 25 Sep 2010 19:45:41 -0400, André Machado <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">afmachado at dcemail.com</A>> wrote: + +><i> --===============1535686779== +</I>><i> Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" +</I>><i> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 +</I>><i> +</I>><i> PERJViBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1mYW1pbHk6QXJpYWwsIHNhbnMtc2VyaWY7IGZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMHB0 +</I>><i> OyI+Jmd0OyBDb21tb24gd2hlcmU/IFRoZXJlIGFyZSBzY2hvb2xzIGFuZCB1bml2ZXJzaXRpZXMg +</I>><i> YXJlIGRpc21pdHRpbmcgaGFyZHdhcmU8QlI+PERJVj48QkxPQ0tRVU9URSBzdHlsZT0ibWFyZ2lu +</I>><i> OiAwcHQgMHB0IDBwdCAwLjhleDsgYm9yZGVyLWxlZnQ6IDFweCBzb2xpZCByZ2IoMjA0LCAyMDQs +</I> + +Please only use text for mailing lists. + +Thanks, Dave Hodgins +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000238.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000245.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#240">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#240">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#240">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#240">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000241.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000241.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..c978c990b --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000241.html @@ -0,0 +1,85 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Will%20this%20work%20for%20a%20build%20system%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C1285473405.6003.5.camel%40athene%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000251.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000242.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system?</H1> + <B>herman</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Will%20this%20work%20for%20a%20build%20system%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C1285473405.6003.5.camel%40athene%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system?">herman at aeronetworks.ca + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 05:56:45 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000251.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000242.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#241">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#241">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#241">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#241">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sat, 2010-09-25 at 10:44 -0700, R James wrote: +><i> Yeah, if I move the physical server about 2 miles. I can plug it into +</I>><i> a better ISP. +</I>BTW, I once calculated (test plus extrapolation) how long it would take +to rebuild every package in Mandriva on a low end 2 GHz Celeron server +that I had available and it came to about 80 days. + +Usually one won't rebuild every package all in one go, but one has to do +that the first time. So, a build system needs to be a big ass piece of +iron, otherwise it will be frustrating to use. + +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000251.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000242.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#241">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#241">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#241">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#241">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000242.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000242.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..631b12e06 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000242.html @@ -0,0 +1,95 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Will%20this%20work%20for%20a%20build%20system%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTi%3DAdftTwQuvjX0LrnjJWFxjL2V5oSqvmd7i5ihO%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000241.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000243.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system?</H1> + <B>R James</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Will%20this%20work%20for%20a%20build%20system%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTi%3DAdftTwQuvjX0LrnjJWFxjL2V5oSqvmd7i5ihO%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system?">upsnag2 at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 07:26:18 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000241.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000243.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#242">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#242">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#242">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#242">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 10:56 PM, herman <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">herman at aeronetworks.ca</A>> wrote: +><i> On Sat, 2010-09-25 at 10:44 -0700, R James wrote: +</I>>><i> Yeah, if I move the physical server about 2 miles. I can plug it into +</I>>><i> a better ISP. +</I>><i> BTW, I once calculated (test plus extrapolation) how long it would take +</I>><i> to rebuild every package in Mandriva on a low end 2 GHz Celeron server +</I>><i> that I had available and it came to about 80 days. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Usually one won't rebuild every package all in one go, but one has to do +</I>><i> that the first time.  So, a build system needs to be a big ass piece of +</I>><i> iron, otherwise it will be frustrating to use. +</I> +Perhaps I was naive in thinking that compiling the distro could be +done with distcc or even a simple queuing system that distributes +SRPMs to nodes in the community swarm. As each node returns its +completed binary package, the queuing system could send it another +SRPM to build. + +It would be cool if it could be done that way. Why pay for data +center space, hardware, electricity and big bandwidth when you could +have a community-provided "cloud" for free? :o) +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000241.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000243.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#242">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#242">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#242">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#242">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000243.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000243.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..74d776dd9 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000243.html @@ -0,0 +1,77 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Will%20this%20work%20for%20a%20build%20system%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTinZxqHxdUmCyMz7x%2BZykK-7kpD_jTrAV44mED3A%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000242.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000244.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system?</H1> + <B>R James</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Will%20this%20work%20for%20a%20build%20system%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTinZxqHxdUmCyMz7x%2BZykK-7kpD_jTrAV44mED3A%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system?">upsnag2 at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 07:45:03 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000242.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000244.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#243">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#243">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#243">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#243">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Sorry, I keep forgetting to strip out email addresses. <embarrased> + +(Gmail sucks bad for this ML netiquette.) +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000242.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000244.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#243">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#243">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#243">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#243">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000244.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000244.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..c94018583 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000244.html @@ -0,0 +1,86 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Will%20this%20work%20for%20a%20build%20system%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimAdjHyJwpcCFhZ37qknErT4n2bSLfJGgcsZVwG%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000243.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000255.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system?</H1> + <B>Ahmad Samir</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Will%20this%20work%20for%20a%20build%20system%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimAdjHyJwpcCFhZ37qknErT4n2bSLfJGgcsZVwG%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system?">ahmadsamir3891 at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 08:06:58 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000243.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000255.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#244">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#244">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#244">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#244">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On 26 September 2010 08:45, R James <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">upsnag2 at gmail.com</A>> wrote: +><i> Sorry, I keep forgetting to strip out email addresses. <embarrased> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> (Gmail sucks bad for this ML netiquette.) +</I> +(email addresses are already masked (@ is changed to "at") +<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-dev/20100926/000242.html">https://www.mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-dev/20100926/000242.html</A> ). + +-- +Ahmad Samir +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000243.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? 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+</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000251.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#245">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#245">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#245">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#245">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>2010/9/26 André Machado <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">afmachado at dcemail.com</A>> + +><i> > Common where? There are schools and universities are dismitting hardware +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > like with P4/2.4Ghz and 512MB RAM for whatever use (either server or +</I>><i> > desktop). And even older hardware no-ROHS, which should be dismantled +</I>><i> > carefully. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> You are seeing everything from a limited european POV, the P4 you say is +</I>><i> being thrown away here is a top-end system in some other countries. +</I>><i> Mageia is supposed to be for the whole world, not just EU/US/BRICs. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I don't want to deprive the fun of building a router or a firewall from an +</I>><i> old P133/64 with two ethernet cards, or some mediabox, but often you can't +</I>><i> (and sometimes you pay of energy power in a year much more than getting some +</I>><i> 30-50E linksys ARM linux based router. And when soemone try such kind of +</I>><i> attempts in the real world with your distro, will be very disappointed of +</I>><i> failures. That's why I in some way asked a survey of oldest hardware based +</I>><i> on own experiences. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I fully agree, At "first world" countries, Like Europe ones or USA, people +</I>><i> can buy the most recet PCS, but at "Thrird world" countries - Like Brazil, +</I>><i> what is part of BRIC, or many Africa nations - this is very unacessible by +</I>><i> population, even with government programs, like Brazil's "Computador para +</I>><i> Todos" (computer for everyone) that sells low-cost PCs with inferior +</I>><i> hardware, often leftover stock lines earlier from the U.S. and Europe. In +</I>><i> many department shops here, for example, Core2Duo is sold as if it were +</I>><i> the last flavor of the moment. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> If, where you are, Pentium I - 4 and 32-bit platform is a museum thing, in +</I>><i> most World parts, is not. I know people that, nowadays, uses a Pentium 200 +</I>><i> with 64MB RAM as main computer. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Despite Mageia main target be current computers, we must think in these +</I>><i> people; 32-bit will not die anytime soon. Then: Do we need compile 32-bit +</I>><i> edition as i586 - and support Pentium and above, i686 - and support Pentium +</I>><i> Pro and above, or do a Mageia Lite edition? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> [PS: I did not break the thread this time, broke?] +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>What I'm saying is that in the "real world", an hardware generation is born +for a certain software generation. Outside this you can't, if programmers +doesn't have paid a particular attention to memory consumption and +performance. And currently they haven't. + +In mandriva 7.0-7.2 I was able to run vmware on a P133 with not 64 but 48MB +of RAM, and there I was running another OS under which I was running a +(TWAIN) software for page scanning for a Umax Page Office scanner, and that +was the only software available for acquiring data from a parallel port. A +bit slow but usable. The same using a modern distro on that old hardware is +no longer possible. So the feeling of being compatible with older hardware +is just apparent. This is true for even non-graphics applications. Try just +with apache, postfix, spamassassin, or even a simple modem-bridge with the +only things doing is having a modem connected to a serial port running a +getty and pppd for dialup access (that's the smallest application which +comes to my mind). + +So my point was that we were keeping flags holding the brakes for +maintaining a compatibility which is just apparent. Current configuring +tools are written in high level languages, like python, with a lot of other +libraries, and they consumes a lot more memory than in the past. Even +rendering the fonts consumes a lot more. xfs was even removed from standard +installation. + +Being compatible and usable with legacy system like that is certainly +possible, but not in the current way. On the software side is even worst +(e.g. some software removed in favour of other newer having the same +capability). Maybe there could be created a section called "Legacy" for such +kind of things, with much more testing. + +Bye +Giuseppe. +-------------- next part -------------- +An HTML attachment was scrubbed... +URL: </pipermail/mageia-dev/attachments/20100926/4a8a48d0/attachment.html> +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000240.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000251.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#245">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#245">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#245">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#245">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000246.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000246.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..5e383e15c --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000246.html @@ -0,0 +1,78 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Small Mandriva problems to go thinking before Mageia Development begins + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Small%20Mandriva%20problems%20to%20go%20thinking%20before%0A%20Mageia%20Development%20begins&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTinhDEp-z%3DyT4to3ma3YEotPGu3VhVxY_BEY4s2h%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000244.html"> + + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Small Mandriva problems to go thinking before Mageia Development begins</H1> + <B>Dimitrios Glentadakis</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Small%20Mandriva%20problems%20to%20go%20thinking%20before%0A%20Mageia%20Development%20begins&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTinhDEp-z%3DyT4to3ma3YEotPGu3VhVxY_BEY4s2h%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Small Mandriva problems to go thinking before Mageia Development begins">dglent at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 10:05:08 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000244.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#246">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#246">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#246">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#246">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>2010/9/24, André Machado <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">afmachado at dcemail.com</A>>: +><i> +</I>><i> 1. Since Mandriva 2010.0, there is a strange problem with BR-ABNT layout +</I>><i> keyboards: when you press the , key at numpad, system prints a . instead. +</I>><i> I've report this bug at Mandriva's Bugzilla but don't know if it was fully +</I>><i> fixed. Other current distros are afected too. Ubuntu is one what is not. +</I>If you try different layouts in your keyboard you will see that the +"." of numpad it is nt the same for all +eg in my system : + +French: . +Greek: , + +><i> +</I>><i> 3. When updating a kernel, all installed kernels are listed on GRUB screen. +</I>><i> This is right, but can confuse some users. We should show only the last +</I>><i> installed kernel and a menu item that leads to other menu with all other +</I>><i> installed kernels. +</I> +I think that the only thing that could confuse the user is that he had +to knows that the last kernel in the list is the default too (the +first in the list). + +-- +Dimitrios Glentadakis +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000244.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#246">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#246">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#246">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#246">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000247.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000247.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..f253478d1 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000247.html @@ -0,0 +1,107 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Small Mandriva problems to go thinking before Mageia Development begins + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Small%20Mandriva%20problems%20to%20go%20thinking%20before%0A%20Mageia%20Development%20begins&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTinhDEp-z%3DyT4to3ma3YEotPGu3VhVxY_BEY4s2h%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000270.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000260.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Small Mandriva problems to go thinking before Mageia Development begins</H1> + <B>Dimitrios Glentadakis</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Small%20Mandriva%20problems%20to%20go%20thinking%20before%0A%20Mageia%20Development%20begins&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTinhDEp-z%3DyT4to3ma3YEotPGu3VhVxY_BEY4s2h%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Small Mandriva problems to go thinking before Mageia Development begins">dglent at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 10:05:08 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000270.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000260.html">[Mageia-dev] Small Mandriva problems to go thinking before Mageia Development begins +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#247">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#247">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#247">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#247">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>2010/9/24, André Machado <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">afmachado at dcemail.com</A>>: +><i> +</I>><i> 1. Since Mandriva 2010.0, there is a strange problem with BR-ABNT layout +</I>><i> keyboards: when you press the , key at numpad, system prints a . instead. +</I>><i> I've report this bug at Mandriva's Bugzilla but don't know if it was fully +</I>><i> fixed. Other current distros are afected too. Ubuntu is one what is not. +</I>If you try different layouts in your keyboard you will see that the +"." of numpad it is nt the same for all +eg in my system : + +French: . +Greek: , + +><i> +</I>><i> 3. When updating a kernel, all installed kernels are listed on GRUB screen. +</I>><i> This is right, but can confuse some users. We should show only the last +</I>><i> installed kernel and a menu item that leads to other menu with all other +</I>><i> installed kernels. +</I> +I think that the only thing that could confuse the user is that he had +to knows that the last kernel in the list is the default too (the +first in the list). + +-- +Dimitrios Glentadakis +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000270.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000260.html">[Mageia-dev] Small Mandriva problems to go thinking before Mageia Development begins +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#247">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#247">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#247">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#247">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000248.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000248.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..5a624972d --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000248.html @@ -0,0 +1,186 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTinAc-zzU9Nafrm-mzZ0DVk1%3DJ%3DA%3DM_mgvSxt2%3DL%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000237.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000249.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?</H1> + <B>Giuseppe Ghibò</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTinAc-zzU9Nafrm-mzZ0DVk1%3DJ%3DA%3DM_mgvSxt2%3DL%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?">ghibomgx at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 10:11:40 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000237.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000249.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#248">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#248">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#248">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#248">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>2010/9/26 Tux99 <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">tux99-mga at uridium.org</A>> + +On Sun, 26 Sep 2010, Giuseppe Ghibò wrote: +><i> +</I>><i> > Centos4 IS NOT a modern distro. It is a LTS started in 2005 and so it +</I>><i> > maintains 2005's original skeleton of kernel, gcc, glibc and X. That's +</I>><i> FIVE +</I>><i> > years old. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I'm quite sure Centos5/RHEL5 would install and run fine on it too, +</I>><i> Debian would almost certainly too, the point is when you don't +</I>><i> install/use a GUI, Linux still can run fine on very old low end +</I>><i> hardware. +</I>><i> +</I> +kernel 2.6.18 is a lot different than 2.6.31/33. As I said I invite to RUN +the installation/installer from scratch (there is the dual-arch installer on +a CD) of 2010.1 or cooker in such hardware. And if successful, report the +memory usage without any service started apart the login ttys. We are not +using the installation tools of CentOS or Debian. NetBSD would have probably +even the tiny one since AIM of being still compatible to m68k hardware. + + +><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > As example MDV 2007.1, which is 3 years old, was still very +</I>><i> > usable and responsive on my P4/ATI (maybe not as much as stable with 3D +</I>><i> > acceleration), but 2010.0 ISN'T. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Again, you are missing the point, you are talking about desktop/GUI use! +</I>><i> Computers get used for a lot of other purposes, not just desktop/GUI use! +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I> + +><i> +</I>><i> > That's why I in some way asked a survey of oldest hardware based +</I>><i> > on own experiences. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Well, my oldest hardware that I still have working is a dual cpu +</I>><i> Pentium 233MMX (the original i586) with 384MB RAM (currently has 2008.1 +</I>><i> +</I> +in i586 we are not even using MMX. As I said 2008.1 is not 2010.1 but 4 +generation distro behind. Since it's not LTS, you might try to upgrade to +2010.1. + + +><i> on it) and a VIA C3 (samuel2 core, i586 since it lacks CMOV) box with +</I>><i> 512MB RAM which has mdv 2010.1 installed on it and works fine for it's +</I>><i> purpose too (headless home server running 24/7 and only uses 10Watts). +</I>><i> +</I> +what is the output of "cpuinfo" there? + + +><i> +</I>><i> > Very interesting, but will such "industrial use" will be target for +</I>><i> Mageia +</I>><i> > (BTW, certainly socket 775 CPU will support SSE and SSE2...)? If they +</I>><i> have +</I>><i> > an ISA slot, I guess is for maintaning the compatibility with some old +</I>><i> fancy +</I>><i> > (and maybe custom) card, certainly not for an ISA ethernet card that can +</I>><i> be +</I>><i> > easily replaced with a cheap PCI one or the one on board. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> That was just one example, there are many other situations were you +</I>><i> still find ISA hardware, especially in developing countries. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > Not exactly. I'm not talking in just using -march=<something> but in also +</I>><i> > pushing -mfpmath=sse -msse (and maybe -msse2) , which should be much more +</I>><i> > than JUST 1-2% (1-2% is usually the benchmark tolerance)... +</I>><i> +</I>><i> AFAIK SSE will only help with media apps (mplayer, etc) and they do +</I>><i> autodedect already anyway so in practice nothing is gained. +</I>><i> +</I> +-mfpmath=sse would replace the x87 with sse. Of course for any CPU not +having the SSE would result in a segfault or illegal instruction report +rather than a drop of performance as in case of changing the optimization +but maintaining the backward compatibility. + + +><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > being realistic I think it's a lot of work and there aren't the +</I>><i> resources, +</I>><i> > so a choice of the default flags should be done. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Agreed that would be too much work for very little benefit, the default +</I>><i> flags of Mandriva are just fine since they still work on i586. +</I>><i> +</I> +If you are able to break the Page's law you are welcome. :-) +[<A HREF="http://www.appscout.com/2009/05/moores_law_meet_larry_pages_la.php">http://www.appscout.com/2009/05/moores_law_meet_larry_pages_la.php</A>] + + +><i> +</I>><i> We could have some selected packages also as i686 (like MIB does and +</I>><i> like the kernel already is), like for example all the media players, but +</I>><i> making the whole distro i686 would break too many uses of it. +</I>><i> +</I> +as I said you are forgetting two of the most important like glibc and +kernel. As I said it's not that difficult to provide such packages (even +optimized for VIA C3 and C7) but require a little bit more than rebuilding +with specifying --target=c3,c7,xxx in rpm building. + +I also think that sometimes application due to poor cache (including ATOM) +would run faster when compiled with -Os instead of -O2...; we could +introduce it for a common .i386.rpm package. + +Bye +Giuseppe. + +In a challenge of better supporting legacy hardware, why not adding Mageia +super-Legacy no-desktop section? where we are doing exactly the opposite of +supporting newer hardware. E.g.: + +- remove i18n support, only LANG=C +- optimize for tiny cache +- reduce the # of fonts installed +- no themes +- reduce # of things in /etc/profile.d +- no extra audio daemon support (pulse, etc) or even no audio support +-------------- next part -------------- +An HTML attachment was scrubbed... +URL: </pipermail/mageia-dev/attachments/20100926/47ebffc2/attachment.html> +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000237.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000249.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#248">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#248">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#248">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#248">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000249.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000249.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..a107000c2 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000249.html @@ -0,0 +1,135 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C4C9F28EE.80400%40iki.fi%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000248.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000256.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?</H1> + <B>Thomas Backlund</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C4C9F28EE.80400%40iki.fi%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?">tmb at iki.fi + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 13:05:18 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000248.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000256.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#249">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#249">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#249">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#249">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Giuseppe Ghibò skrev 26.9.2010 02:09: + +><i> Not exactly. I'm not talking in just using -march=<something> but in +</I>><i> also pushing -mfpmath=sse -msse (and maybe -msse2) , which should be +</I>><i> much more than JUST 1-2% (1-2% is usually the benchmark +</I>><i> tolerance)... +</I> +Well, here is a simple fact. + +Yes, going for i686 + SSE2 would/could give some benefits, + +BUT + +It would close support for all theese: +- Intel i586 (all) +- Intel Pentium Pro +- Intel Pentium II +- Intel Pentium III (Including some Pentium D) +- 32-bit AMD Athlon +- AMD Geode +- VIA C3 +- Transmeta Crusoe + +So, thats not an option. + + +Now what about only i686 + SSE then? +It would still close support for all theese: +- Intel i586 (all) +- Some Intel Pentium D +- 32-bit AMD Athlon < XP/MP +- AMD Geode < NX +- VIA C3 (Samuel* and Ezra) +- Transmeta Crusoe + +So, still not an option. + + +Now what about only i686 then? +It would still close support for all theese: +- Intel i586 (all) +- Some Intel Pentium D +- AMD Geode < NX +- VIA C3 (Samuel* and Ezra) +- Transmeta Crusoe + +So, still not an option. + + +And then to point out some other facts: + +Some of the benefits are already accounted for like you noted earlier: +"Of course we shouldn't forget that the MDV had already a system for +providing optimized (look at /usr/lib/sse2 for instance) version of +libraries according to instruction set supported." + +And many applications capable of utilizing sse2 and other instruction +sets already have runtime detection support, so no problem there. + + +So, where does that leave us? + +Simple. +For 32bit installs, we will still support i586 as base. +For 64bit installs, it's simple as x86_64 is SSE2 by default. + + +Now, _if_ the Mageia community gets enough developers to think of _and_ +support a "light netbook/legacy edition", then maybe we can think of +doing a i586/i686 split, but for now we will use i586 as base. + + +And many of the users wanting i686/sse2 already have hardware capable of +running x86_64, so that's what they should do, as there is where the +future is. + +-- +Thomas +</PRE> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000248.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000256.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#249">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#249">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#249">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#249">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000250.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000250.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..866451c1b --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000250.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C4C9F2903.9090800%40iki.fi%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000272.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000252.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?</H1> + <B>Thomas Backlund</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C4C9F2903.9090800%40iki.fi%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?">tmb at iki.fi + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 13:05:39 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000272.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000252.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#250">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#250">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#250">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#250">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Giuseppe Ghibò skrev 26.9.2010 02:09: + > +><i> I don't want to deprive the fun of building a router or a firewall from +</I>><i> an old P133/64 with two ethernet cards, or some mediabox, but often you +</I>><i> can't (and sometimes you pay of energy power in a year much more than +</I>><i> getting some 30-50E linksys ARM linux based router. And when soemone try +</I>><i> such kind of attempts in the real world with your distro, will be very +</I>><i> disappointed of failures. That's why I in some way asked a survey of +</I>><i> oldest hardware based on own experiences. +</I>><i> +</I> +You still miss the point that in Mageia community there are many users +that find 30-50e a _lot_ of money, and we dont want to shut them out. + +Just because most people in Europe / US have better hardware, dont +expect all other in the community to have the same... + +-- +Thomas + +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000272.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000252.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#250">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#250">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#250">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#250">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000251.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000251.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..325f0a6df --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000251.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3Ci7na6g%24mr9%241%40dough.gmane.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000245.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000241.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?</H1> + <B>farfouille</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3Ci7na6g%24mr9%241%40dough.gmane.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?">farfouille64 at laposte.net + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 13:18:38 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000245.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000241.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#251">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#251">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#251">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#251">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE> +><i> 2010/9/26 André Machado +</I> +><i> +</I>><i> [PS: I did not break the thread this time, broke?] +</I>><i> +</I>Unfortunately yes, you broke it. +Perhaps I can help you if you send me what king of mail client / web +interface you use on my private mail : +farfouille64 [at] laposte [dot] net +No need to disturb the ongoing discussion + +Cheers, +farfouille. + +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000245.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000241.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#251">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#251">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#251">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#251">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000252.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000252.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..246330fe3 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000252.html @@ -0,0 +1,95 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C20100926133319.6b44918b%40gaia%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000250.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000253.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?</H1> + <B>André Salaün</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C20100926133319.6b44918b%40gaia%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?">andresalaun at aliceadsl.fr + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 13:33:19 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000250.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000253.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#252">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#252">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#252">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#252">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le Sun, 26 Sep 2010 14:05:39 +0300 +Thomas Backlund <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">tmb at iki.fi</A>> a écrit: + +><i> Giuseppe Ghibò skrev 26.9.2010 02:09: +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > I don't want to deprive the fun of building a router or a firewall from +</I>><i> > an old P133/64 with two ethernet cards, or some mediabox, but often you +</I>><i> > can't (and sometimes you pay of energy power in a year much more than +</I>><i> > getting some 30-50E linksys ARM linux based router. And when soemone try +</I>><i> > such kind of attempts in the real world with your distro, will be very +</I>><i> > disappointed of failures. That's why I in some way asked a survey of +</I>><i> > oldest hardware based on own experiences. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> +</I>><i> You still miss the point that in Mageia community there are many users +</I>><i> that find 30-50e a _lot_ of money, and we dont want to shut them out. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Just because most people in Europe / US have better hardware, dont +</I>><i> expect all other in the community to have the same... +</I>><i> +</I>><i> -- +</I>><i> Thomas +</I> +More, you exclude a lot of schools ( I mean for children not Universities) which hardware is partially a little bit old ... +And using Gnu/Linux in school is very very important I think ! + + +-- +A.Salaün + + + +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000250.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000253.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#252">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#252">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#252">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#252">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000253.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000253.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..39effc7a0 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000253.html @@ -0,0 +1,86 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C201009261350.27741.oliver.bgr%40googlemail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000252.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000254.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?</H1> + <B>Oliver Burger</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C201009261350.27741.oliver.bgr%40googlemail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?">oliver.bgr at googlemail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 13:50:27 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000252.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000254.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#253">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#253">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#253">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#253">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>André Salaün <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">andresalaun at aliceadsl.fr</A>> +><i> Le Sun, 26 Sep 2010 14:05:39 +0300 +</I>><i> Thomas Backlund <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">tmb at iki.fi</A>> a écrit: +</I>><i> > You still miss the point that in Mageia community there are many users +</I>><i> > that find 30-50e a _lot_ of money, and we dont want to shut them out. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Just because most people in Europe / US have better hardware, dont +</I>><i> > expect all other in the community to have the same... +</I>><i> +</I>><i> More, you exclude a lot of schools ( I mean for children not Universities) +</I>><i> which hardware is partially a little bit old ... And using Gnu/Linux in +</I>><i> school is very very important I think ! +</I> ++100 + +Even in Europe there are many people using older hardware and I wouldn't want +to exclude them just because of a minimalistic enhancement for the people with +newer hardware. + +Those with bleeding edge hardware can always use 64bit versions, which are +better optimized. + +Oliver +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000252.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000254.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#253">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#253">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#253">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#253">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000254.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000254.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..d0255a943 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000254.html @@ -0,0 +1,117 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTi%3DzoVoAj9SCHbjxOWGquQ%2BUFh0_JLpoppN5kw__%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000253.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000258.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?</H1> + <B>Giuseppe Ghibò</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTi%3DzoVoAj9SCHbjxOWGquQ%2BUFh0_JLpoppN5kw__%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?">ghibomgx at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 13:59:29 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000253.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000258.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#254">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#254">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#254">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#254">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>2010/9/26 Thomas Backlund <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">tmb at iki.fi</A>> + +Giuseppe Ghibò skrev 26.9.2010 02:09: +><i> > +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> I don't want to deprive the fun of building a router or a firewall from +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> an old P133/64 with two ethernet cards, or some mediabox, but often you +</I>>><i> can't (and sometimes you pay of energy power in a year much more than +</I>>><i> getting some 30-50E linksys ARM linux based router. And when soemone try +</I>>><i> such kind of attempts in the real world with your distro, will be very +</I>>><i> disappointed of failures. That's why I in some way asked a survey of +</I>>><i> oldest hardware based on own experiences. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> You still miss the point that in Mageia community there are many users that +</I>><i> find 30-50e a _lot_ of money, and we dont want to shut them out. +</I>><i> +</I> +I'm not decreasing the value of the money, but rather I was pointing out the +false assumption that mageia (or the current inherited mandriva) would work +and would work FINE (or at all) on that hardware just because it was using a +compatible instruction set. I'm not against this, but if that we wanna +support that kind of hardware there is MUCH MORE work to do (I suggested a +LEGACY section in the wiki, but seems it wasn't caught) than just keeping +the actual flags, because in that way if we don't change then nobody will +complain. Even the simple lzma payload of rpm packages requires much more +memory than in the past with gzip. I'm not sure with current squashfs for +the initial ram disks. + +I already cited there are other distro which maybe do a lot better this job. +In many countries there isn't even the broadband, dialup, nor the electrical +power for them. Right now you are almost assuming that a 10 years old +instruction set is still a no go, and that our distro is optimized like the +one of the One Laptop Per Child Project. Sadly it isn't. But there is also a +2nd point: on old hardware it is still possible to run old software and old +distros: strange but true. Such old software is still doing its dirty job. +It's not that you get a trojan as soon as you put the nose out the net. +There are still ways of configuring a distro on a LAN and trust in the +people using the terminals locally. Many schools still use them. In a 2 +hours lesson at school you can't wait half an our just to have your desktop +booting..., the same if you plan an antispam server with latest antispam +tools on a server of that category (server that was doing it's dirty job +with the distro of 2 or 3 generations ago). + +I also tried such old hardware, but there are much less bloated distro and +less bloated kernels (even non-linux ones) that do the job (or a specific +duty) on such hardware a lot better than ours. + +Bye +Giuseppe. +-------------- next part -------------- +An HTML attachment was scrubbed... +URL: </pipermail/mageia-dev/attachments/20100926/160d6f48/attachment.html> +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000253.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000258.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#254">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#254">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#254">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#254">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000255.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000255.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..da9c8f554 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000255.html @@ -0,0 +1,91 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Will%20this%20work%20for%20a%20build%20system%3F&In-Reply-To=%3Cm3sk0wwv73.fsf%40euphor.blino.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000244.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000257.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system?</H1> + <B>Olivier Blin</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Will%20this%20work%20for%20a%20build%20system%3F&In-Reply-To=%3Cm3sk0wwv73.fsf%40euphor.blino.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system?">mageia at blino.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 14:22:40 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000244.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000257.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#255">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#255">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#255">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#255">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>R James <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">upsnag2 at gmail.com</A>> writes: + +>><i> BTW, I once calculated (test plus extrapolation) how long it would take +</I>>><i> to rebuild every package in Mandriva on a low end 2 GHz Celeron server +</I>>><i> that I had available and it came to about 80 days. +</I> +With a reasonably good machine, we used to be able to rebuild most of +"main" in about one day. + +><i> Perhaps I was naive in thinking that compiling the distro could be +</I>><i> done with distcc or even a simple queuing system that distributes +</I>><i> SRPMs to nodes in the community swarm. As each node returns its +</I>><i> completed binary package, the queuing system could send it another +</I>><i> SRPM to build. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> It would be cool if it could be done that way. Why pay for data +</I>><i> center space, hardware, electricity and big bandwidth when you could +</I>><i> have a community-provided "cloud" for free? :o) +</I> +Because there are some authentication and integrity issues which are not +simple to solve: we have to be sure that the binary packages really come +from the unmodified SRPM (so that it does not contains malware). + +-- +Olivier Blin - blino +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000244.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000257.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#255">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#255">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#255">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#255">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000256.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000256.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..4ebe91ef6 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000256.html @@ -0,0 +1,174 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimsOs7MDyMSn-KOs4tr6AMbwDwAsFbO9uNWHGfR%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000249.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000259.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?</H1> + <B>Giuseppe Ghibò</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimsOs7MDyMSn-KOs4tr6AMbwDwAsFbO9uNWHGfR%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?">ghibomgx at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 14:25:43 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000249.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000259.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#256">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#256">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#256">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#256">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>2010/9/26 Thomas Backlund <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">tmb at iki.fi</A>> + +Giuseppe Ghibò skrev 26.9.2010 02:09: +><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Not exactly. I'm not talking in just using -march=<something> but in +</I>>><i> also pushing -mfpmath=sse -msse (and maybe -msse2) , which should be +</I>>><i> much more than JUST 1-2% (1-2% is usually the benchmark +</I>>><i> tolerance)... +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Well, here is a simple fact. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Yes, going for i686 + SSE2 would/could give some benefits, +</I>><i> +</I>><i> BUT +</I>><i> +</I>><i> It would close support for all theese: +</I>><i> - Intel i586 (all) +</I>><i> +</I>- Intel Pentium Pro +><i> - Intel Pentium II +</I>><i> - Intel Pentium III (Including some Pentium D) +</I>><i> - 32-bit AMD Athlon +</I>><i> - AMD Geode +</I>><i> - VIA C3 +</I>><i> - Transmeta Crusoe +</I>><i> +</I>><i> So, thats not an option. +</I>><i> +</I> +As I said I would see someone with such hardware, taking a CD of latest MDV +or cooker and try to install to do something and do a report. + +That reminds me also one suggestion. If someone has old hardware that not +in use anymore then could be donated to who is willing to test the latest +MDV|Mageia on it. It's not ironic (I think this is a brainstorming), or I'm +not kidding, but there could be an wiki hardware section for that. For old +hardware schools and institutes or corporations have even to pay for +dismantling: such hardware is usually recycled for: + + a) extracting gold (there are nowadays new chemical processes that found +more affordable to extract gold from old PCs than from mines) + b) avoid pollutions with the lead, plastics they contain, if thrown in the +dumpster etc. (note there isn't just the CPU, but also CRT monitors, +printers, disks, etc.) + +IIRC there is a EU law that if you buy a new PC the vendor is obeyed to +retire the old one and take care for the dismantling. + + +><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Now what about only i686 + SSE then? +</I>><i> It would still close support for all theese: +</I>><i> - Intel i586 (all) +</I>><i> - Some Intel Pentium D +</I>><i> - 32-bit AMD Athlon < XP/MP +</I>><i> - AMD Geode < NX +</I>><i> - VIA C3 (Samuel* and Ezra) +</I>><i> - Transmeta Crusoe +</I>><i> +</I>><i> So, still not an option. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Now what about only i686 then? +</I>><i> It would still close support for all theese: +</I>><i> - Intel i586 (all) +</I>><i> - Some Intel Pentium D +</I>><i> - AMD Geode < NX +</I>><i> - VIA C3 (Samuel* and Ezra) +</I>><i> - Transmeta Crusoe +</I>><i> +</I>><i> So, still not an option. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> And then to point out some other facts: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Some of the benefits are already accounted for like you noted earlier: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> "Of course we shouldn't forget that the MDV had already a system for +</I>><i> providing optimized (look at /usr/lib/sse2 for instance) version of +</I>><i> libraries according to instruction set supported." +</I>><i> +</I>><i> And many applications capable of utilizing sse2 and other instruction sets +</I>><i> already have runtime detection support, so no problem there. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> So, where does that leave us? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Simple. +</I>><i> For 32bit installs, we will still support i586 as base. +</I>><i> For 64bit installs, it's simple as x86_64 is SSE2 by default. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Now, _if_ the Mageia community gets enough developers to think of _and_ +</I>><i> support a "light netbook/legacy edition", then maybe we can think of doing a +</I>><i> i586/i686 split, but for now we will use i586 as base. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> And many of the users wanting i686/sse2 already have hardware capable of +</I>><i> running x86_64, so that's what they should do, as there is where the future +</I>><i> is. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>You are forgetting a midrange. Which is the midrange of not the latest +hardware but a memory around 2-4GB RAM. In that set a 32bit OS is still +consuming 30-50% fewer memory than 64bit. +As I said to complete the circle it is needed to provide on a per +--target|dialect .rpm package for the kernel as well as for the glibc. We +have just to ensure the targets and fix compilation errors (though that +wouldn't resolve the problem of bloatware distro). + +Bye +Giuseppe. +-------------- next part -------------- +An HTML attachment was scrubbed... +URL: </pipermail/mageia-dev/attachments/20100926/5b597a0c/attachment.html> +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000249.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000259.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#256">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#256">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#256">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#256">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000257.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000257.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..feeb4368d --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000257.html @@ -0,0 +1,73 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Will%20this%20work%20for%20a%20build%20system%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTikVTUq7AhHx%3D7oisH6FdXXNRDSwx4-G4h0K3uFs%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000255.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000263.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system?</H1> + <B>R James</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Will%20this%20work%20for%20a%20build%20system%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTikVTUq7AhHx%3D7oisH6FdXXNRDSwx4-G4h0K3uFs%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system?">upsnag2 at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 14:36:46 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000255.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000263.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#257">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#257">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#257">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#257">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 7:22 AM, Olivier Blin wrote: +><i> +</I>><i> Because there are some authentication and integrity issues which are not +</I>><i> simple to solve: we have to be sure that the binary packages really come +</I>><i> from the unmodified SRPM (so that it does not contains malware). +</I>><i> +</I>Ah. See, told you I was naive. ;o) +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000255.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000263.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#257">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#257">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#257">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#257">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000258.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000258.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..d50490348 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000258.html @@ -0,0 +1,155 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C4C9F4109.4060200%40iki.fi%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000254.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000261.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?</H1> + <B>Thomas Backlund</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C4C9F4109.4060200%40iki.fi%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?">tmb at iki.fi + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 14:48:09 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000254.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000261.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#258">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#258">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#258">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#258">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Giuseppe Ghibò skrev 26.9.2010 14:59: +><i> 2010/9/26 Thomas Backlund <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">tmb at iki.fi</A> <mailto:<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">tmb at iki.fi</A>>> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Giuseppe Ghibò skrev 26.9.2010 02:09: +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I don't want to deprive the fun of building a router or a +</I>><i> firewall from +</I>><i> +</I>><i> an old P133/64 with two ethernet cards, or some mediabox, but +</I>><i> often you +</I>><i> can't (and sometimes you pay of energy power in a year much +</I>><i> more than +</I>><i> getting some 30-50E linksys ARM linux based router. And when +</I>><i> soemone try +</I>><i> such kind of attempts in the real world with your distro, will +</I>><i> be very +</I>><i> disappointed of failures. That's why I in some way asked a survey of +</I>><i> oldest hardware based on own experiences. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> You still miss the point that in Mageia community there are many +</I>><i> users that find 30-50e a _lot_ of money, and we dont want to shut +</I>><i> them out. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I'm not decreasing the value of the money, but rather I was pointing out +</I>><i> the false assumption that mageia (or the current inherited mandriva) +</I>><i> would work and would work FINE (or at all) on that hardware just because +</I>><i> it was using a compatible instruction set. +</I> +Well, it depends of what you consider "FINE". +I dont expect people using old hardware to try to get KDE or any 3d +stuff to work "FINE". + +But we have lightweight platforms such as lxde and xfce that both works +moderate/fast on a 200MHz+ platform with 128MB+ RAM. + +Then if you want it as a server, its even easier... you dont even need a +DE/GUI, as it's manageable through console/shell. + + +><i> I'm not against this, but if +</I>><i> that we wanna support that kind of hardware there is MUCH MORE work to +</I>><i> do (I suggested a LEGACY section in the wiki, but seems it wasn't +</I>><i> caught) than just keeping the actual flags, because in that way if we +</I>><i> don't change then nobody will complain. Even the simple lzma payload of +</I>><i> rpm packages requires much more memory than in the past with gzip. I'm +</I>><i> not sure with current squashfs for the initial ram disks. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I already cited there are other distro which maybe do a lot better this +</I>><i> job. In many countries there isn't even the broadband, dialup, nor the +</I>><i> electrical power for them. Right now you are almost assuming that a 10 +</I>><i> years old instruction set is still a no go, and that our distro is +</I>><i> optimized like the one of the One Laptop Per Child Project. +</I> +I know we dont optimize for OLPC. + +Yes, the instruction set is old, but there are many systems that are +older. and even if the hw is newer, it still does not enforce full i686 +spec, as seen for example with either missing CMOV or another broken +register. Even Intel got it wrong with some series of the Pentium D wich +didn't work with i686 series builds... + + +><i> Sadly it +</I>><i> isn't. But there is also a 2nd point: on old hardware it is still +</I>><i> possible to run old software and old distros: strange but true. Such old +</I>><i> software is still doing its dirty job. It's not that you get a trojan as +</I>><i> soon as you put the nose out the net. There are still ways of +</I>><i> configuring a distro on a LAN and trust in the people using the +</I>><i> terminals locally. Many schools still use them. In a 2 hours lesson at +</I>><i> school you can't wait half an our just to have your desktop booting..., +</I> +It does not take half an hour if you use xfce/lxde. + +><i> the same if you plan an antispam server with latest antispam tools on a +</I>><i> server of that category (server that was doing it's dirty job with the +</I>><i> distro of 2 or 3 generations ago). +</I>><i> +</I> +Oh, I know several servers out there running on i586 ~200Mhz that has no +problem what so ever keeping up with the spam/av filtering. + +><i> I also tried such old hardware, but there are much less bloated distro +</I>><i> and less bloated kernels (even non-linux ones) that do the job (or a +</I>><i> specific duty) on such hardware a lot better than ours. +</I>><i> +</I> +Maybe so, but does that mean we should force them to _not_ use Mageia ? + +-- +Thomas +</PRE> + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000254.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000261.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#258">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#258">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#258">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#258">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000259.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000259.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..ce4f255f6 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000259.html @@ -0,0 +1,202 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C4C9F4425.4070709%40iki.fi%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000256.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000273.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?</H1> + <B>Thomas Backlund</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C4C9F4425.4070709%40iki.fi%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?">tmb at iki.fi + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 15:01:25 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000256.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000273.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#259">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#259">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#259">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#259">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Giuseppe Ghibò skrev 26.9.2010 15:25: +><i> 2010/9/26 Thomas Backlund <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">tmb at iki.fi</A> <mailto:<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">tmb at iki.fi</A>>> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Giuseppe Ghibò skrev 26.9.2010 02:09: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Not exactly. I'm not talking in just using -march=<something> but in +</I>><i> also pushing -mfpmath=sse -msse (and maybe -msse2) , which should be +</I>><i> much more than JUST 1-2% (1-2% is usually the benchmark +</I>><i> tolerance)... +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Well, here is a simple fact. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Yes, going for i686 + SSE2 would/could give some benefits, +</I>><i> +</I>><i> BUT +</I>><i> +</I>><i> It would close support for all theese: +</I>><i> - Intel i586 (all) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> - Intel Pentium Pro +</I>><i> - Intel Pentium II +</I>><i> - Intel Pentium III (Including some Pentium D) +</I>><i> - 32-bit AMD Athlon +</I>><i> - AMD Geode +</I>><i> - VIA C3 +</I>><i> - Transmeta Crusoe +</I>><i> +</I>><i> So, thats not an option. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> As I said I would see someone with such hardware, taking a CD of latest +</I>><i> MDV or cooker and try to install to do something and do a report. +</I>><i> +</I> +No point in trying the Cooker installer, as its currently broken. + +Last time I tried (around 2010.0), I had no problem using the textmode +installer, wich is the most lightway method of installing we have. + +><i> That reminds me also one suggestion. If someone has old hardware that +</I>><i> not in use anymore then could be donated to who is willing to test the +</I>><i> latest MDV|Mageia on it. +</I> +I will next week, as I still think we have some old i586 stored at work... + +><i> It's not ironic (I think this is a +</I>><i> brainstorming), or I'm not kidding, but there could be an wiki hardware +</I>><i> section for that. For old hardware schools and institutes or +</I>><i> corporations have even to pay for dismantling: such hardware is usually +</I>><i> recycled for: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> a) extracting gold (there are nowadays new chemical processes that +</I>><i> found more affordable to extract gold from old PCs than from mines) +</I>><i> b) avoid pollutions with the lead, plastics they contain, if thrown +</I>><i> in the dumpster etc. (note there isn't just the CPU, but also CRT +</I>><i> monitors, printers, disks, etc.) +</I>><i> +</I> + c) keep donating the old harware to schools that take anything + they can get (so no dismantling). + + +><i> IIRC there is a EU law that if you buy a new PC the vendor is obeyed to +</I>><i> retire the old one and take care for the dismantling. +</I>><i> +</I> +Nope. +But there is a "recycling fee" in the price of new hw, so should be able +to get tid of old hw without any cost... + +><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Now what about only i686 + SSE then? +</I>><i> It would still close support for all theese: +</I>><i> - Intel i586 (all) +</I>><i> - Some Intel Pentium D +</I>><i> - 32-bit AMD Athlon < XP/MP +</I>><i> - AMD Geode < NX +</I>><i> - VIA C3 (Samuel* and Ezra) +</I>><i> - Transmeta Crusoe +</I>><i> +</I>><i> So, still not an option. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Now what about only i686 then? +</I>><i> It would still close support for all theese: +</I>><i> - Intel i586 (all) +</I>><i> - Some Intel Pentium D +</I>><i> - AMD Geode < NX +</I>><i> - VIA C3 (Samuel* and Ezra) +</I>><i> - Transmeta Crusoe +</I>><i> +</I>><i> So, still not an option. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> And then to point out some other facts: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Some of the benefits are already accounted for like you noted earlier: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> "Of course we shouldn't forget that the MDV had already a system for +</I>><i> providing optimized (look at /usr/lib/sse2 for instance) version of +</I>><i> libraries according to instruction set supported." +</I>><i> +</I>><i> And many applications capable of utilizing sse2 and other +</I>><i> instruction sets already have runtime detection support, so no +</I>><i> problem there. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> So, where does that leave us? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Simple. +</I>><i> For 32bit installs, we will still support i586 as base. +</I>><i> For 64bit installs, it's simple as x86_64 is SSE2 by default. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Now, _if_ the Mageia community gets enough developers to think of +</I>><i> _and_ support a "light netbook/legacy edition", then maybe we can +</I>><i> think of doing a i586/i686 split, but for now we will use i586 as base. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> And many of the users wanting i686/sse2 already have hardware +</I>><i> capable of running x86_64, so that's what they should do, as there +</I>><i> is where the future is. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> You are forgetting a midrange. Which is the midrange of not the latest +</I>><i> hardware but a memory around 2-4GB RAM. In that set a 32bit OS is still +</I>><i> consuming 30-50% fewer memory than 64bit. +</I> +I'm not forgetting them... +The current i586 base supports them +We also provide i686 kernels for them (desktop and server) +We have the "/usr/lib/sse2" and "apps with runtime detection support" +mentioned above. + +><i> As I said to complete the circle it is needed to provide on a per +</I>><i> --target|dialect .rpm package for the kernel as well as for the glibc. +</I>><i> We have just to ensure the targets and fix compilation errors (though +</I>><i> that wouldn't resolve the problem of bloatware distro). +</I>><i> +</I> +-- +Thomas +</PRE> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000256.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000273.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#259">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#259">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#259">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#259">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000260.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000260.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..70633f928 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000260.html @@ -0,0 +1,99 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Small Mandriva problems to go thinking before Mageia Development begins + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Small%20Mandriva%20problems%20to%20go%20thinking%20before%0A%09Mageia%20Development%20begins&In-Reply-To=%3C201009261537.00145.marcello.anni%40alice.it%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000247.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000264.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Small Mandriva problems to go thinking before Mageia Development begins</H1> + <B>Marcello Anni</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Small%20Mandriva%20problems%20to%20go%20thinking%20before%0A%09Mageia%20Development%20begins&In-Reply-To=%3C201009261537.00145.marcello.anni%40alice.it%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Small Mandriva problems to go thinking before Mageia Development begins">marcello.anni at alice.it + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 15:36:59 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000247.html">[Mageia-dev] Small Mandriva problems to go thinking before Mageia Development begins +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000264.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#260">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#260">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#260">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#260">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>><i> 2010/9/24, André Machado <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">afmachado at dcemail.com</A>>: +</I>><i> > 1. Since Mandriva 2010.0, there is a strange problem with BR-ABNT layout +</I>><i> > keyboards: when you press the , key at numpad, system prints a . instead. +</I>><i> > I've report this bug at Mandriva's Bugzilla but don't know if it was +</I>><i> > fully fixed. Other current distros are afected too. Ubuntu is one what +</I>><i> > is not. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> If you try different layouts in your keyboard you will see that the +</I>><i> "." of numpad it is nt the same for all +</I>><i> eg in my system : +</I>><i> +</I>><i> French: . +</I>><i> Greek: , +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > 3. When updating a kernel, all installed kernels are listed on GRUB +</I>><i> > screen. This is right, but can confuse some users. We should show only +</I>><i> > the last installed kernel and a menu item that leads to other menu with +</I>><i> > all other installed kernels. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I think that the only thing that could confuse the user is that he had +</I>><i> to knows that the last kernel in the list is the default too (the +</I>><i> first in the list). +</I> +i think these issues can be discussed (and fixed) in a following time.. i have +too so many proposals to submit : ) + + +cheers, +Marcello +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000247.html">[Mageia-dev] Small Mandriva problems to go thinking before Mageia Development begins +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000264.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#260">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#260">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#260">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#260">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000261.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000261.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..6f622af68 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000261.html @@ -0,0 +1,175 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C4C9F50EF.5070105%40laposte.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000258.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000266.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?</H1> + <B>andré</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C4C9F50EF.5070105%40laposte.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?">andr55 at laposte.net + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 15:55:59 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000258.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000266.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#261">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#261">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#261">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#261">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Thomas Backlund a écrit : +><i> +</I>><i> Giuseppe Ghibò skrev 26.9.2010 14:59: +</I>>><i> 2010/9/26 Thomas Backlund <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">tmb at iki.fi</A> <mailto:<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">tmb at iki.fi</A>>> +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Giuseppe Ghibò skrev 26.9.2010 02:09: +</I>>><i> > +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> I don't want to deprive the fun of building a router or a +</I>>><i> firewall from +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> an old P133/64 with two ethernet cards, or some mediabox, but +</I>>><i> often you +</I>>><i> can't (and sometimes you pay of energy power in a year much +</I>>><i> more than +</I>>><i> getting some 30-50E linksys ARM linux based router. And when +</I>>><i> soemone try +</I>>><i> such kind of attempts in the real world with your distro, will +</I>>><i> be very +</I>>><i> disappointed of failures. That's why I in some way asked a +</I>>><i> survey of +</I>>><i> oldest hardware based on own experiences. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> You still miss the point that in Mageia community there are many +</I>>><i> users that find 30-50e a _lot_ of money, and we dont want to shut +</I>>><i> them out. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> I'm not decreasing the value of the money, but rather I was pointing out +</I>>><i> the false assumption that mageia (or the current inherited mandriva) +</I>>><i> would work and would work FINE (or at all) on that hardware just because +</I>>><i> it was using a compatible instruction set. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Well, it depends of what you consider "FINE". +</I>><i> I dont expect people using old hardware to try to get KDE or any 3d +</I>><i> stuff to work "FINE". +</I>><i> +</I>><i> But we have lightweight platforms such as lxde and xfce that both +</I>><i> works moderate/fast on a 200MHz+ platform with 128MB+ RAM. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Then if you want it as a server, its even easier... you dont even need +</I>><i> a DE/GUI, as it's manageable through console/shell. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> I'm not against this, but if +</I>>><i> that we wanna support that kind of hardware there is MUCH MORE work to +</I>>><i> do (I suggested a LEGACY section in the wiki, but seems it wasn't +</I>>><i> caught) than just keeping the actual flags, because in that way if we +</I>>><i> don't change then nobody will complain. Even the simple lzma payload of +</I>>><i> rpm packages requires much more memory than in the past with gzip. I'm +</I>>><i> not sure with current squashfs for the initial ram disks. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> I already cited there are other distro which maybe do a lot better this +</I>>><i> job. In many countries there isn't even the broadband, dialup, nor the +</I>>><i> electrical power for them. Right now you are almost assuming that a 10 +</I>>><i> years old instruction set is still a no go, and that our distro is +</I>>><i> optimized like the one of the One Laptop Per Child Project. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I know we dont optimize for OLPC. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Yes, the instruction set is old, but there are many systems that are +</I>><i> older. and even if the hw is newer, it still does not enforce full +</I>><i> i686 spec, as seen for example with either missing CMOV or another +</I>><i> broken register. Even Intel got it wrong with some series of the +</I>><i> Pentium D wich didn't work with i686 series builds... +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> Sadly it +</I>>><i> isn't. But there is also a 2nd point: on old hardware it is still +</I>>><i> possible to run old software and old distros: strange but true. Such old +</I>>><i> software is still doing its dirty job. It's not that you get a trojan as +</I>>><i> soon as you put the nose out the net. There are still ways of +</I>>><i> configuring a distro on a LAN and trust in the people using the +</I>>><i> terminals locally. Many schools still use them. In a 2 hours lesson at +</I>>><i> school you can't wait half an our just to have your desktop booting..., +</I>><i> +</I>><i> It does not take half an hour if you use xfce/lxde. +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> the same if you plan an antispam server with latest antispam tools on a +</I>>><i> server of that category (server that was doing it's dirty job with the +</I>>><i> distro of 2 or 3 generations ago). +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Oh, I know several servers out there running on i586 ~200Mhz that has +</I>><i> no problem what so ever keeping up with the spam/av filtering. +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> I also tried such old hardware, but there are much less bloated distro +</I>>><i> and less bloated kernels (even non-linux ones) that do the job (or a +</I>>><i> specific duty) on such hardware a lot better than ours. +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Maybe so, but does that mean we should force them to _not_ use Mageia ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> -- +</I>><i> Thomas +</I>><i> ____ +</I>To cease support for i586 seems to me to be the height of arrogance. +If new i586-level hardware can still be bought somewhere in the world, +it is still current hardware. +And look at how many 5-year-old, and even 10-year-old, cars are still in +use. Since cars have inherently a much shorter life, computers bought +new 5 years ago, or even 10 years ago, should be still be considered +current hardware. It doesn't really matter if most users - concentrated +in the richer countries - have much more powerful hardware. As has +already been pointed out, there is 64-bit support, and a i686 +compilation of the kernel to satisfy those with newer hardware that +can't (32-bit processor or not enough memory) or prefer not to use the +64-bit compilations. +Note that the kernel is probably where most of the performance gains are +to be made with i686, so dropping i586 in favour of i686 would give +little in performance gains. +After all, don't we want almost everyone to be able to use Mageia ? +- andré +</PRE> + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000258.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000266.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#261">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#261">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#261">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#261">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000262.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000262.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..18fbb2c4c --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000262.html @@ -0,0 +1,95 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Will%20this%20work%20for%20a%20build%20system%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C1285493904.32078.9.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000271.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000270.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system?</H1> + <B>Michael Scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Will%20this%20work%20for%20a%20build%20system%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C1285493904.32078.9.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system?">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 11:38:24 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000271.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000270.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#262">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#262">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#262">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#262">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le samedi 25 septembre 2010 à 20:56 -0700, herman a écrit : +><i> On Sat, 2010-09-25 at 10:44 -0700, R James wrote: +</I>><i> > Yeah, if I move the physical server about 2 miles. I can plug it into +</I>><i> > a better ISP. +</I>><i> BTW, I once calculated (test plus extrapolation) how long it would take +</I>><i> to rebuild every package in Mandriva on a low end 2 GHz Celeron server +</I>><i> that I had available and it came to about 80 days. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Usually one won't rebuild every package all in one go, but one has to do +</I>><i> that the first time. So, a build system needs to be a big ass piece of +</I>><i> iron, otherwise it will be frustrating to use. +</I> +Well, for the moment, Mandriva has ( for i586 ) 5 servers with 4 core at +2.8 ghz +( fast scsi disk, 2 g of ram ). So by your estimate and using similar +hardware ( which date back to 3/4 years ago ), it would take +80/(5*4*1.5) = 3 days + +now, that doesn't take in account several factors, like : +- others bottleneck ( memory, i/o ) +- overhead of using iurt and chroot regeneration +- overhead of uploading to the mirror +- overhead of a non linear repartition ( kde, kernel, openoffice, +sagemath, etc, take more time ). + +-- +Michael Scherer + +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000271.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000270.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#262">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#262">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#262">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#262">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000263.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000263.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..411f7ac9a --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000263.html @@ -0,0 +1,81 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Will%20this%20work%20for%20a%20build%20system%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C1285508299.32078.145.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000257.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000265.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system?</H1> + <B>Michael Scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Will%20this%20work%20for%20a%20build%20system%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C1285508299.32078.145.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system?">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 15:38:19 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000257.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000265.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#263">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#263">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#263">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#263">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le dimanche 26 septembre 2010 à 14:22 +0200, Olivier Blin a écrit : + +><i> > It would be cool if it could be done that way. Why pay for data +</I>><i> > center space, hardware, electricity and big bandwidth when you could +</I>><i> > have a community-provided "cloud" for free? :o) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Because there are some authentication and integrity issues which are not +</I>><i> simple to solve: we have to be sure that the binary packages really come +</I>><i> from the unmodified SRPM (so that it does not contains malware). +</I> +We could however use this to host something similar to koji scratch +build ( ie, build that are not pushed to central mirror ). + +<A HREF="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers/UsingKoji#Scratch_builds_2">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers/UsingKoji#Scratch_builds_2</A> + + +-- +Michael Scherer + +</PRE> + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000257.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000265.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#263">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#263">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#263">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#263">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000264.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000264.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..47816016f --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000264.html @@ -0,0 +1,110 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Will%20this%20work%20for%20a%20build%20system%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C20100926072737.1E6DB972%40resin05.mta.everyone.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000260.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000267.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system?</H1> + <B>André Machado</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Will%20this%20work%20for%20a%20build%20system%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C20100926072737.1E6DB972%40resin05.mta.everyone.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system?">afmachado at dcemail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 16:27:37 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000260.html">[Mageia-dev] Small Mandriva problems to go thinking before Mageia Development begins +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000267.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#264">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#264">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#264">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#264">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE> +--- <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">misc at zarb.org</A> escreveu: + +From: Michael Scherer <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">misc at zarb.org</A>> +To: Mageia development mailing-list <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">mageia-dev at mageia.org</A>> +Subject: Re: [Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 15:38:19 +0200 + +Le dimanche 26 septembre 2010 à 14:22 +0200, Olivier Blin a écrit : + +><i> > It would be cool if it could be done that way. Why pay for data +</I>><i> > center space, hardware, electricity and big bandwidth when you could +</I>><i> > have a community-provided "cloud" for free? :o) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Because there are some authentication and integrity issues which are not +</I>><i> simple to solve: we have to be sure that the binary packages really come +</I>><i> from the unmodified SRPM (so that it does not contains malware). +</I> +We could however use this to host something similar to koji scratch +build ( ie, build that are not pushed to central mirror ). + +<A HREF="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers/UsingKoji#Scratch_builds_2">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers/UsingKoji#Scratch_builds_2</A> + + +-- +Michael Scherer + +_______________________________________________ +Mageia-dev mailing list +<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">Mageia-dev at mageia.org</A> +<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev</A> + +Tis idea is cool. Can we do something like Nasa' SETI - Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence -, a community build grid: everyone install dev tools in your machine and runs a piece of software what downloads a SRPM or a part of a SRPM to this machine, compile it and uploads it back. Mageia can be built in minutes (despite some members low connection speed) and would be something completely new and innovative! + +Reguards, + +-- +Andre Machado - www.twitter.com/afmachado +Mageia - A Magia continua + +_____________________________________________________________ +Washington DC's Largest FREE Email service. ---> <A HREF="http://www.DCemail.com">http://www.DCemail.com</A> ---> A Washington Online Community Member ---> +<A HREF="http://www.DCpages.com">http://www.DCpages.com</A> +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000260.html">[Mageia-dev] Small Mandriva problems to go thinking before Mageia Development begins +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000267.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#264">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#264">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#264">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#264">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000265.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000265.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..39c06fad1 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000265.html @@ -0,0 +1,105 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Will%20this%20work%20for%20a%20build%20system%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimCi7LsYNcxTw4bfM7mjM8yD7z8QWrCX5BMV4S8%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000263.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000268.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system?</H1> + <B>joris dedieu</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Will%20this%20work%20for%20a%20build%20system%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimCi7LsYNcxTw4bfM7mjM8yD7z8QWrCX5BMV4S8%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system?">joris.dedieu at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 17:04:05 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000263.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000268.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#265">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#265">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#265">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#265">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>2010/9/26 Olivier Blin <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">mageia at blino.org</A>>: +><i> R James <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">upsnag2 at gmail.com</A>> writes: +</I>><i> +</I>>>><i> BTW, I once calculated (test plus extrapolation) how long it would take +</I>>>><i> to rebuild every package in Mandriva on a low end 2 GHz Celeron server +</I>>>><i> that I had available and it came to about 80 days. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> With a reasonably good machine, we used to be able to rebuild most of +</I>><i> "main" in about one day. +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> Perhaps I was naive in thinking that compiling the distro could be +</I>>><i> done with distcc or even a simple queuing system that distributes +</I>>><i> SRPMs to nodes in the community swarm.  As each node returns its +</I>>><i> completed binary package, the queuing system could send it another +</I>>><i> SRPM to build. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> It would be cool if it could be done that way.  Why pay for data +</I>>><i> center space, hardware, electricity and big bandwidth when you could +</I>>><i> have a community-provided "cloud" for free? :o) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Because there are some authentication and integrity issues which are not +</I>><i> simple to solve: we have to be sure that the binary packages really come +</I>><i> from the unmodified SRPM (so that it does not contains malware). +</I> +This can be avoid by +- building every package twice (also useful for integrity check) +- randomize build order +- timedout jobs + +It's not a trivial problem but imho distribute tools advantages +(price, scalability, availability ...) should be seriously considered. +Has a single build system in a single datacenter should be a single +point of failure. + +Joris +><i> +</I>><i> -- +</I>><i> Olivier Blin - blino +</I>><i> _______________________________________________ +</I>><i> Mageia-dev mailing list +</I>><i> <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">Mageia-dev at mageia.org</A> +</I>><i> <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev</A> +</I>><i> +</I></PRE> + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000263.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000268.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#265">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#265">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#265">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#265">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000266.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000266.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..2be3a1a9f --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000266.html @@ -0,0 +1,238 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTikR%3D%3DwEmH8JZBxFTQwWrA7p%2ByjvQ4P80u1X%2BovV%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000261.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000235.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?</H1> + <B>Giuseppe Ghibò</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTikR%3D%3DwEmH8JZBxFTQwWrA7p%2ByjvQ4P80u1X%2BovV%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?">ghibomgx at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 17:04:19 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000261.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000235.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#266">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#266">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#266">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#266">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>2010/9/26 andré <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">andr55 at laposte.net</A>> + +><i> Thomas Backlund a écrit : +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> Giuseppe Ghibò skrev 26.9.2010 14:59: +</I>>><i> +</I>>>><i> 2010/9/26 Thomas Backlund <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">tmb at iki.fi</A> <mailto:<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">tmb at iki.fi</A>>> +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> Giuseppe Ghibò skrev 26.9.2010 02:09: +</I>>>><i> > +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> I don't want to deprive the fun of building a router or a +</I>>>><i> firewall from +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> an old P133/64 with two ethernet cards, or some mediabox, but +</I>>>><i> often you +</I>>>><i> can't (and sometimes you pay of energy power in a year much +</I>>>><i> more than +</I>>>><i> getting some 30-50E linksys ARM linux based router. And when +</I>>>><i> soemone try +</I>>>><i> such kind of attempts in the real world with your distro, will +</I>>>><i> be very +</I>>>><i> disappointed of failures. That's why I in some way asked a survey +</I>>>><i> of +</I>>>><i> oldest hardware based on own experiences. +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> You still miss the point that in Mageia community there are many +</I>>>><i> users that find 30-50e a _lot_ of money, and we dont want to shut +</I>>>><i> them out. +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> I'm not decreasing the value of the money, but rather I was pointing out +</I>>>><i> the false assumption that mageia (or the current inherited mandriva) +</I>>>><i> would work and would work FINE (or at all) on that hardware just because +</I>>>><i> it was using a compatible instruction set. +</I>>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Well, it depends of what you consider "FINE". +</I>>><i> I dont expect people using old hardware to try to get KDE or any 3d stuff +</I>>><i> to work "FINE". +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> But we have lightweight platforms such as lxde and xfce that both works +</I>>><i> moderate/fast on a 200MHz+ platform with 128MB+ RAM. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Then if you want it as a server, its even easier... you dont even need a +</I>>><i> DE/GUI, as it's manageable through console/shell. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> I'm not against this, but if +</I>>>><i> that we wanna support that kind of hardware there is MUCH MORE work to +</I>>>><i> do (I suggested a LEGACY section in the wiki, but seems it wasn't +</I>>>><i> caught) than just keeping the actual flags, because in that way if we +</I>>>><i> don't change then nobody will complain. Even the simple lzma payload of +</I>>>><i> rpm packages requires much more memory than in the past with gzip. I'm +</I>>>><i> not sure with current squashfs for the initial ram disks. +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> I already cited there are other distro which maybe do a lot better this +</I>>>><i> job. In many countries there isn't even the broadband, dialup, nor the +</I>>>><i> electrical power for them. Right now you are almost assuming that a 10 +</I>>>><i> years old instruction set is still a no go, and that our distro is +</I>>>><i> optimized like the one of the One Laptop Per Child Project. +</I>>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> I know we dont optimize for OLPC. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Yes, the instruction set is old, but there are many systems that are +</I>>><i> older. and even if the hw is newer, it still does not enforce full i686 +</I>>><i> spec, as seen for example with either missing CMOV or another broken +</I>>><i> register. Even Intel got it wrong with some series of the Pentium D wich +</I>>><i> didn't work with i686 series builds... +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Sadly it +</I>>>><i> isn't. But there is also a 2nd point: on old hardware it is still +</I>>>><i> possible to run old software and old distros: strange but true. Such old +</I>>>><i> software is still doing its dirty job. It's not that you get a trojan as +</I>>>><i> soon as you put the nose out the net. There are still ways of +</I>>>><i> configuring a distro on a LAN and trust in the people using the +</I>>>><i> terminals locally. Many schools still use them. In a 2 hours lesson at +</I>>>><i> school you can't wait half an our just to have your desktop booting..., +</I>>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> It does not take half an hour if you use xfce/lxde. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> the same if you plan an antispam server with latest antispam tools on a +</I>>>><i> server of that category (server that was doing it's dirty job with the +</I>>>><i> distro of 2 or 3 generations ago). +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> +</I>>><i> Oh, I know several servers out there running on i586 ~200Mhz that has no +</I>>><i> problem what so ever keeping up with the spam/av filtering. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> I also tried such old hardware, but there are much less bloated distro +</I>>>><i> and less bloated kernels (even non-linux ones) that do the job (or a +</I>>>><i> specific duty) on such hardware a lot better than ours. +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> +</I>>><i> Maybe so, but does that mean we should force them to _not_ use Mageia ? +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> -- +</I>>><i> Thomas +</I>>><i> ____ +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> To cease support for i586 seems to me to be the height of arrogance. +</I>><i> +</I> +The height of arrogance? C'mon you are seeing politics (like the apology the +culture of the waste...or a reverse robin hood which stoles CPU cycles to +poor CPU to give to rich ones) where there isn't. + + +><i> If new i586-level hardware can still be bought somewhere in the world, it +</I>><i> is still current hardware. +</I>><i> +</I> +Also i386 and i486 hardware can still bought somewhere (including ebay) and +maybe one want to run. Why we don't lower to i386 compatatibility set +instead of i586? IIRC the i586 origin was to give something more optimized +than what was the average distro like RH. But maybe this could be changed. + + +><i> And look at how many 5-year-old, and even 10-year-old, cars are still in +</I>><i> use. Since cars have inherently a much shorter life, computers bought new 5 +</I>><i> years ago, or even 10 years ago, should be still be considered current +</I>><i> hardware. It doesn't really matter if most users - +</I> + +There are many places in the world where old cars can't circulate anymore or +have restrictions in the zone where they are allowed to circulate (because +of laws according to the engine classification they are on). Maybe it's a +lobby of car vendors to sell new cars dunno. BTW, I've an old car. But the +car analogy is not appropriate because you can still use the car to reach a +place at a certain average speed and with certain safety levels (e.g. is +compliant against safety belts) not much different than the one of the +latest shining EURO5 models (also due to speed limits). Apart this, cars +don't have a shorter life than PCs. While indeed I've seen many motherboard +and hard disks dying after a much shorter period of time (and repairing +would cost much more than buying a new one). Surviving ones on a such long +period of time were just very expensive one (at the time they were new) +which had a very good maintenance. In percentage almost all the MSI +motherboards died after 5-6 years (maybe after 2 or 3). Gigabyte were +similar. ASUS had the lowest percentage of failure. Intel motherboard were +too expensive to buy. + +Furthermore many new i586 solution are of much more elitism than newer +hardware. A newer mini-itx with a VIA CPU doesn't cost less than an entry +level CPU of AMD (which arrives at SSE4.1 or more SIMD set) and an +all-in-one motherboard. And even hardware with some particular slot support +(like ISA) doesn't costs less than one having just a PCI + PCIe slot. + +concentrated in the richer countries - have much more powerful hardware. As +><i> has already been pointed out, there is 64-bit support, and a i686 +</I>><i> compilation of the kernel to satisfy those with newer hardware that can't +</I>><i> (32-bit processor or not enough memory) or prefer not to use the 64-bit +</I>><i> compilations. +</I>><i> Note that the kernel is probably where most of the performance gains are to +</I>><i> be made with i686, so dropping i586 in favour of i686 would give little in +</I>><i> performance gains. +</I>><i> After all, don't we want almost everyone to be able to use Mageia ? +</I>><i> +</I> +Of course, but it's not a panacea that runs everywhere. My initial post was +that we were still keeping a brake on and keeping compatibility for things +that NOBODY will use or CAN'T USE for technical reasons. NOBODY means ZERO, +NICHT, NADA, NOTHING. If there is at least ONE, then it's not ZERO anymore. + +So my post was to keep a BETTER support for old and legacy hardware, not +just CLAIM there is where INDEED there ISN'T or there couldn't be (because +for instance there isn't enough memory to run the installer) or that NOBODY +has TESTED for several reasons. + +Bye +Giuseppe. +-------------- next part -------------- +An HTML attachment was scrubbed... +URL: </pipermail/mageia-dev/attachments/20100926/a8609cf4/attachment-0001.html> +</PRE> + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000261.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000235.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#266">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#266">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#266">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#266">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000267.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000267.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..561f29ae5 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000267.html @@ -0,0 +1,128 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Will%20this%20work%20for%20a%20build%20system%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimViyju8pYtQqgscx0YCw%2B8zyQQUdt%3DXYduzWMA%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000264.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000278.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system?</H1> + <B>Adjamilton Medeiros de Almeida Júnior</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Will%20this%20work%20for%20a%20build%20system%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimViyju8pYtQqgscx0YCw%2B8zyQQUdt%3DXYduzWMA%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system?">ajunior at brasifort.com.br + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 17:05:30 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000264.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000278.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia server conception +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#267">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#267">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#267">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#267">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>I Like this idea. An modern way and that envolve community. Maybe it's an +successfully. + +Júnior + +Em 26 de setembro de 2010 11:27, André Machado <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">afmachado at dcemail.com</A>>escreveu: + +><i> +</I>><i> --- <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">misc at zarb.org</A> escreveu: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> From: Michael Scherer <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">misc at zarb.org</A>> +</I>><i> To: Mageia development mailing-list <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">mageia-dev at mageia.org</A>> +</I>><i> Subject: Re: [Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</I>><i> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 15:38:19 +0200 +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Le dimanche 26 septembre 2010 à 14:22 +0200, Olivier Blin a écrit : +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > > It would be cool if it could be done that way. Why pay for data +</I>><i> > > center space, hardware, electricity and big bandwidth when you could +</I>><i> > > have a community-provided "cloud" for free? :o) +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Because there are some authentication and integrity issues which are not +</I>><i> > simple to solve: we have to be sure that the binary packages really come +</I>><i> > from the unmodified SRPM (so that it does not contains malware). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> We could however use this to host something similar to koji scratch +</I>><i> build ( ie, build that are not pushed to central mirror ). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> <A HREF="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers/UsingKoji#Scratch_builds_2">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers/UsingKoji#Scratch_builds_2</A> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> -- +</I>><i> Michael Scherer +</I>><i> +</I>><i> _______________________________________________ +</I>><i> Mageia-dev mailing list +</I>><i> <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">Mageia-dev at mageia.org</A> +</I>><i> <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev</A> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Tis idea is cool. Can we do something like Nasa' SETI - Search for +</I>><i> Extraterrestrial Intelligence -, a community build grid: everyone install +</I>><i> dev tools in your machine and runs a piece of software what downloads a SRPM +</I>><i> or a part of a SRPM to this machine, compile it and uploads it back. Mageia +</I>><i> can be built in minutes (despite some members low connection speed) and +</I>><i> would be something completely new and innovative! +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Reguards, +</I>><i> +</I>><i> -- +</I>><i> Andre Machado - www.twitter.com/afmachado +</I>><i> Mageia - A Magia continua +</I>><i> +</I>><i> _____________________________________________________________ +</I>><i> Washington DC's Largest FREE Email service. ---> <A HREF="http://www.DCemail.com---">http://www.DCemail.com---</A>> A Washington Online Community Member ---> +</I>><i> <A HREF="http://www.DCpages.com">http://www.DCpages.com</A> +</I>><i> _______________________________________________ +</I>><i> Mageia-dev mailing list +</I>><i> <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">Mageia-dev at mageia.org</A> +</I>><i> <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev</A> +</I>><i> +</I>-------------- next part -------------- +An HTML attachment was scrubbed... +URL: </pipermail/mageia-dev/attachments/20100926/088d0dda/attachment.html> +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000264.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000278.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia server conception +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#267">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#267">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#267">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#267">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000268.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000268.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..1091cd489 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000268.html @@ -0,0 +1,129 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Will%20this%20work%20for%20a%20build%20system%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C1285517056.2698.14.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000265.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000269.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system?</H1> + <B>Michael Scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Will%20this%20work%20for%20a%20build%20system%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C1285517056.2698.14.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system?">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 18:04:16 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000265.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000269.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#268">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#268">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#268">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#268">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le dimanche 26 septembre 2010 à 17:04 +0200, joris dedieu a écrit : +><i> 2010/9/26 Olivier Blin <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">mageia at blino.org</A>>: +</I>><i> > R James <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">upsnag2 at gmail.com</A>> writes: +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> >>> BTW, I once calculated (test plus extrapolation) how long it would take +</I>><i> >>> to rebuild every package in Mandriva on a low end 2 GHz Celeron server +</I>><i> >>> that I had available and it came to about 80 days. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > With a reasonably good machine, we used to be able to rebuild most of +</I>><i> > "main" in about one day. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> >> Perhaps I was naive in thinking that compiling the distro could be +</I>><i> >> done with distcc or even a simple queuing system that distributes +</I>><i> >> SRPMs to nodes in the community swarm. As each node returns its +</I>><i> >> completed binary package, the queuing system could send it another +</I>><i> >> SRPM to build. +</I>><i> >> +</I>><i> >> It would be cool if it could be done that way. Why pay for data +</I>><i> >> center space, hardware, electricity and big bandwidth when you could +</I>><i> >> have a community-provided "cloud" for free? :o) +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Because there are some authentication and integrity issues which are not +</I>><i> > simple to solve: we have to be sure that the binary packages really come +</I>><i> > from the unmodified SRPM (so that it does not contains malware). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> This can be avoid by +</I>><i> - building every package twice (also useful for integrity check) +</I> +What if a package has changed between the first build and the second in +such a way that it impact the compilation ? + +This would either requires to resubmit the packages ( which will be +quickly annoying ) or this would requires 3rd compilation, maybe a 4th +one. + +what if the binary include hostname, build date and so on ? + +then the build will be seen as different no matter you do ( ie, md5, +sha1 ) because it will have different contents. + + +><i> - randomize build order +</I>><i> - timedout jobs +</I>><i> +</I>><i> It's not a trivial problem but imho distribute tools advantages +</I>><i> (price, scalability, availability ...) should be seriously considered. +</I>><i> Has a single build system in a single datacenter should be a single +</I>><i> point of failure. +</I> +there will be a single point of failure, no matter you do : + +There is a reference vcs, and a single job dispatcher. We can maybe +double them or work around issues but this would lead to more complexity +which may not really compensate a potential datacenter problem. + +Fedora had been compromised once and had to shut down their +infrastructure, or had to move servers sooner this year, they coped with +the downtime. + +Debian had problem ( like security.debian.org who burned in 2002, or the +famous openssl problem in 2008 ) too, without trouble. + +Launchpad is often down for database upgrade, and still, Ubuntu is +there. + +-- +Michael Scherer + +</PRE> + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000265.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000269.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#268">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#268">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#268">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#268">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000269.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000269.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..4440b220c --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000269.html @@ -0,0 +1,74 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Will%20this%20work%20for%20a%20build%20system%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C20100926162608.GO15219%40mars-attacks.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000268.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000271.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system?</H1> + <B>nicolas vigier</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Will%20this%20work%20for%20a%20build%20system%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C20100926162608.GO15219%40mars-attacks.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system?">boklm at mars-attacks.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 18:26:08 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000268.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000271.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#269">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#269">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#269">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#269">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sun, 26 Sep 2010, joris dedieu wrote: + +><i> 2010/9/26 Olivier Blin <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">mageia at blino.org</A>>: +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Because there are some authentication and integrity issues which are not +</I>><i> > simple to solve: we have to be sure that the binary packages really come +</I>><i> > from the unmodified SRPM (so that it does not contains malware). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> This can be avoid by +</I>><i> - building every package twice (also useful for integrity check) +</I> +Then you can still do it with two hosts adding malware instead of one. + +</PRE> + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000268.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? 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+</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000247.html">[Mageia-dev] Small Mandriva problems to go thinking before Mageia Development begins +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#270">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#270">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#270">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#270">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 02:38, Michael Scherer <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">misc at zarb.org</A>> wrote: +><i> Le samedi 25 septembre 2010 à 20:56 -0700, herman a écrit : +</I>>><i> On Sat, 2010-09-25 at 10:44 -0700, R James wrote: +</I>>><i> > Yeah, if I move the physical server about 2 miles. I can plug it into +</I>>><i> > a better ISP. +</I>>><i> BTW, I once calculated (test plus extrapolation) how long it would take +</I>>><i> to rebuild every package in Mandriva on a low end 2 GHz Celeron server +</I>>><i> that I had available and it came to about 80 days. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Usually one won't rebuild every package all in one go, but one has to do +</I>>><i> that the first time.  So, a build system needs to be a big ass piece of +</I>>><i> iron, otherwise it will be frustrating to use. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Well, for the moment, Mandriva has ( for i586 ) 5 servers with 4 core at +</I>><i> 2.8 ghz +</I>><i> ( fast scsi disk, 2 g of ram ). So by your estimate and using similar +</I>><i> hardware ( which date back to 3/4 years ago ), it would take +</I>><i> 80/(5*4*1.5) = 3 days +</I>><i> +</I>><i> now, that doesn't take in account several factors, like : +</I>><i> - others bottleneck ( memory, i/o ) +</I>><i> - overhead of using iurt and chroot regeneration +</I>><i> - overhead of uploading to the mirror +</I>><i> - overhead of a non linear repartition ( kde, kernel, openoffice, +</I>><i> sagemath, etc, take more time ). +</I> +Using a nice machine (24 'cpu', actually 2 * 6 cores + HT, 12GB RAM), +using few GB tmpfs for the build, I rebuilt main with iurt for one +arch in less than a day. +This can be optimized (not extracting chroot each time will improve +time for small packages, building several in parallel may improve as +nothing requires 24 cpus 99% of the time and we don't have disk seek +issue anyway with tmpfs) but that's to give an idea. + +The upload to the mirror part can be done in parallel so it does not +slow the overall process. +</PRE> + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000262.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000247.html">[Mageia-dev] Small Mandriva problems to go thinking before Mageia Development begins +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#270">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#270">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#270">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#270">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000271.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000271.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..6524d8fb1 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000271.html @@ -0,0 +1,111 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Will%20this%20work%20for%20a%20build%20system%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTinnunRcMO%2Bc3icdS25HGA1gNUg9GpYpXp49yTQw%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000269.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000262.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system?</H1> + <B>Giuseppe Ghibò</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Will%20this%20work%20for%20a%20build%20system%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTinnunRcMO%2Bc3icdS25HGA1gNUg9GpYpXp49yTQw%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system?">ghibomgx at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 19:14:15 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000269.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000262.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#271">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#271">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#271">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#271">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>2010/9/26 nicolas vigier <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">boklm at mars-attacks.org</A>> + +><i> On Sun, 26 Sep 2010, joris dedieu wrote: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > 2010/9/26 Olivier Blin <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">mageia at blino.org</A>>: +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > Because there are some authentication and integrity issues which are +</I>><i> not +</I>><i> > > simple to solve: we have to be sure that the binary packages really +</I>><i> come +</I>><i> > > from the unmodified SRPM (so that it does not contains malware). +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > This can be avoid by +</I>><i> > - building every package twice (also useful for integrity check) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Then you can still do it with two hosts adding malware instead of one. +</I>><i> +</I> +What this means? Two RPMs built at different time will result different, +even the executable binaries when built on the same hardware at different +time might be different (because of timestamps, etc.). + +IMHO the idea of the cloud is not that bad but need to be rethinked. I don't +see so much flaws for security. If you inspire to what repsys is right now, +the cloud would be like having several svn repositories mirrored around the +world each one with a local iurt/repsys building system (it might be even +partial, e.g. there could be BIG ones holding the whole svn|git tree, and +smaller one holding just the latest release or the latest two releases, +etc.). Each building system around the world will sign packages they build +with their own signing keys and you know where they come from. And packages +won't be resigned by a supposed master. Of course you have to trust their +administrators, exactly like you right now have to trust single users +submitting sources to the svn and bulding packages. + +The most difficult things IMHO would be building from the same syncronized +data. In that case you might choose a master server and several mirrors. The +master might have multiple internet access points (e.g. from two providers) +and will be the only one who might receive svn commits. Or a model without a +master, I guess inspiring to a model what UseNET is (was), I think a lot +more complicate. But in that case you have two direction of feeding and if +two libraries are submitted in different user in nearest time, you need a +system to check for coerency and set alarms in some cases. + +IMHO one of the building problems was not massive automatic rebuilding but +avoid bottenlecks to the users when building goes wrong. + +Bye +Giuseppe. +-------------- next part -------------- +An HTML attachment was scrubbed... +URL: </pipermail/mageia-dev/attachments/20100926/88900d00/attachment.html> +</PRE> + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000269.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000262.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#271">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#271">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#271">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#271">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000272.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000272.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..3a5843c5b --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000272.html @@ -0,0 +1,101 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimjR97sJROt7f9v%3DAw_qjoJOXV%2BjawMxEQtWH4M%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000279.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000250.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?</H1> + <B>Sinner from the Prairy</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTimjR97sJROt7f9v%3DAw_qjoJOXV%2BjawMxEQtWH4M%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?">sinnerbofh at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 19:16:49 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000279.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000250.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#272">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#272">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#272">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#272">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 7:05 AM, Thomas Backlund <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">tmb at iki.fi</A>> wrote: + +(...) + +><i> So, where does that leave us? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Simple. +</I>><i> For 32bit installs, we will still support i586 as base. +</I>><i> For 64bit installs, it's simple as x86_64 is SSE2 by default. +</I> +(...) + +><i> And many of the users wanting i686/sse2 already have hardware capable of +</I>><i> running x86_64, so that's what they should do, as there is where the future +</I>><i> is. +</I> +I've been reading this thread all along, and this is the most sensible option: + +* leave i586 for 32-bit CPUs +* if you want real change, use 64 bit x86_64 + +This is the only realistic target for compilers. + +The differences between i586 vs i686 vs using SSE or SSE2 or..... +leaves out of Mageia way too many supported CPUs, with no clear +advantage in performance with the new compiler target. + +For a real difference, go 64 bits and that's it. + +I remember a review made before 64bits compilers that uncovered that: + +i586 was noticeable faster than i386 +i686 made no real difference to i586 +Gentoo laser-precission target made no real difference to i586 + + +Salut, +Sinner +-- +Sinner from the Prairy - <A HREF="http://sinnerbofh.blogspot.com/">http://sinnerbofh.blogspot.com/</A> - +<A HREF="http://www.ibiblio.org/sinner/">http://www.ibiblio.org/sinner/</A> +Linux User # 89976 - Visit BlogDrake:  <A HREF="http://blogdrake.net">http://blogdrake.net</A> +</PRE> + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000279.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? 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+</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000274.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#273">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#273">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#273">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#273">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Op zondag 26 september 2010 14:25:43 schreef Giuseppe Ghibò: +[...] +><i> As I said I would see someone with such hardware, taking a CD of latest MDV +</I>><i> or cooker and try to install to do something and do a report. +</I>[...] + +I have currently a Pentium 66 running a thin client XDMCP mandriva setup. and +i don't want to lose support for it. + +It works perfectly for what it is designed for. + +there is absolutely no reason to have everything compiled for i686 since it +provides no measurable difference in speed/efficiency. and why excluding those; +if you really want it like that, check out that guy that installed Mandriva in +the gentoo way (from compiling the src.rpm's), that way you can have any flags +you want.) + +I will not say anything else on this subject. + +Kind regards, + +Maarten Vanraes +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000259.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? 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+</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000277.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#274">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#274">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#274">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#274">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>2010/9/26 Maarten Vanraes <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">maarten.vanraes at gmail.com</A>>: +><i> Op zondag 26 september 2010 14:25:43 schreef Giuseppe Ghibò: +</I>><i> [...] +</I>>><i> As I said I would see someone with such hardware, taking a CD of latest MDV +</I>>><i> or cooker and try to install to do something and do a report. +</I>><i> [...] +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I have currently a Pentium 66 running a thin client XDMCP mandriva setup. and +</I>><i> i don't want to lose support for it. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> It works perfectly for what it is designed for. +</I> +We have lots of examples of people with older and weak machines using +Mandriva Linux 2010.1, although not with KDE or Gnome. It is not the +basic system which needs the power of modern machines, it is the GUI, +especially the Gnome and KDE graphical environments. +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000273.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000277.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#274">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#274">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#274">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#274">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000277.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000277.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..a3522ac0e --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000277.html @@ -0,0 +1,71 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C201009261805.o8QI5i7r039603%40smtp-vbr12.xs4all.nl%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000274.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000279.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?</H1> + <B>Dick Gevers</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C201009261805.o8QI5i7r039603%40smtp-vbr12.xs4all.nl%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?">dvgevers at xs4all.nl + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 20:06:00 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000274.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000279.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#277">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#277">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#277">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#277">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sun, 26 Sep 2010 19:32:49 +0200, Wolfgang Bornath wrote about Re: +[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?: + +><i>We have lots of examples of people with older and weak machines using +</I>><i>Mandriva Linux 2010.1, although not with KDE or Gnome. It is not the +</I>><i>basic system which needs the power of modern machines, it is the GUI, +</I>><i>especially the Gnome and KDE graphical environments. +</I> +Yup: one of my boxes is a Compaq Proliant with a Pentium II at 300 MHz with +256 Mb of RAM running 2010.0, uptime 208 days. It will run GNOME, but +slowly. So I use IceWM. It will be upgraded when it has to reboot, to the +next official version of Mandriva or Mageia , if available by then. + +Cheers, +=Dick Gevers= +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000274.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000279.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#277">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#277">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#277">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#277">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000278.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000278.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..10e4cd6c3 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000278.html @@ -0,0 +1,115 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mageia server conception + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20server%20conception&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTinOTi62-OVK-Y_VuJJkHLopKashQegJexsie3OJ%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000267.html"> + + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mageia server conception</H1> + <B>Sascha Schneider</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mageia%20server%20conception&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTinOTi62-OVK-Y_VuJJkHLopKashQegJexsie3OJ%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mageia server conception">schneider at zawm.be + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 21:48:30 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000267.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#278">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#278">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#278">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#278">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>I would love a server concept too and I have some ideas that could be very +interresting for the community using mageia as server. + +If a server team should start, please count me in. + +greetings from Belgium, Sascha + +2010/9/20 Samuel Verschelde <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">samuel.verschelde at pmsipilot.com</A>> + +><i> Le lundi 20 septembre 2010 09:42:12, Bersuit Vera a écrit : +</I>><i> > Hi +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > I'm also very interested in Server packages. ¿Did anyone speak with Oden? +</I>><i> > Mandríva server packages has always been very stable. In my opinion +</I>><i> mageia +</I>><i> > should mantain and boost this line. +</I>><i> > Mageia must be a great server distro +</I>><i> > For server packager/tester/bug reporting team, count me in! +</I>><i> > Bersuit. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > 2010/9/20 Gergely Lónyai <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">gergely at lonyai.com</A>> +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > > Hi, +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > Have we got a conception to server packages? I have some server and my +</I>><i> > > work required me to package/recompile some server related package. +</I>><i> > > I torn between Mageia and Mandriva: +</I>><i> > > - I don't know what does the mandriva (the official new is in France +</I>><i> > > lang), but they want to do strong the server side, and most friend came +</I>><i> > > here. +</I>><i> > > - If the Mageia fork the server side (without Oden) with a right +</I>><i> > > conception then I connect this community. +</I>><i> > > If the quality don't guaranteed then I need stand to Mandriva (or +</I>><i> > > CentOS). +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > Let's go: +</I>><i> > > Aleph +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > _______________________________________________ +</I>><i> > > Mageia-dev mailing list +</I>><i> > > <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">Mageia-dev at mageia.org</A> +</I>><i> > > <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev</A> +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Server packages are also important for me, I really hope there will be a +</I>><i> team of contributors around this. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Regards +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Samuel +</I>><i> _______________________________________________ +</I>><i> Mageia-dev mailing list +</I>><i> <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">Mageia-dev at mageia.org</A> +</I>><i> <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev</A> +</I>><i> +</I>-------------- next part -------------- +An HTML attachment was scrubbed... +URL: </pipermail/mageia-dev/attachments/20100926/cfffe5e1/attachment-0001.html> +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000267.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#278">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#278">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#278">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#278">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000279.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000279.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..0ce5c6b65 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000279.html @@ -0,0 +1,89 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTim09eTrJ%2B9Bdp2Zgk6bQph-qPxT1KWaHARzegR%2B%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000277.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000272.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?</H1> + <B>Thierry Vignaud</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3CAANLkTim09eTrJ%2B9Bdp2Zgk6bQph-qPxT1KWaHARzegR%2B%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?">thierry.vignaud at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 23:55:41 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000277.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000272.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#279">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#279">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#279">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#279">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>2010/9/26 Giuseppe Ghibò <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">ghibomgx at gmail.com</A>>: +>><i> - Intel i586 (all) +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> - Intel Pentium Pro +</I>>><i> - Intel Pentium II +</I>>><i> - Intel Pentium III (Including some Pentium D) +</I> +(...) + +><i> As I said I would see someone with such hardware, taking a CD of latest MDV +</I>><i> or cooker and try to install to do something and do a report. +</I> +I did run mandriva 2009.x on a PIII with 256Mb of RAM a year ago. +Hopefully upgraded to 512Mb +Yes video playback is painful on original i810 but it worked. + +><i> You are forgetting a midrange. Which is the midrange of not the latest +</I>><i> hardware but a memory around 2-4GB RAM. In that set a 32bit OS is still +</I>><i> consuming 30-50% fewer memory than 64bit. +</I> +Yes x86_64 consumes a little more RAM. +But on the other hand it : +- leverages SS2, +- offers twice more regular registers that are twice bigger + (and yes register pressure is a big issue on x86) +- offers twice more SSE registers +- enables to actually use the RAM between 3 and 4Gb which is not +usable on quite a lot of chipsets. +- it makes easier to use bigger disks (64bit math for adressing +sectors on big volumes is expensive on 32bit) + + +And PLEASE learn to QUOTE ONLY THE APPROPRIATE SHORT PASSAGES. +Thanks... +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000277.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000272.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#279">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#279">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#279">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#279">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/author.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/author.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..22a5b03bb --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/author.html @@ -0,0 +1,272 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 26 September 2010 Archive by author</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>26 September 2010 Archives by author</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sun Sep 26 00:12:54 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sun Sep 26 23:55:41 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 45<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="000260.html">[Mageia-dev] Small Mandriva problems to go thinking before Mageia Development begins +</A><A NAME="260"> </A> +<I>Marcello Anni +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000249.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="249"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000250.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="250"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000258.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="258"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000259.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="259"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000255.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="255"> </A> +<I>Olivier Blin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000274.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="274"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000253.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="253"> </A> +<I>Oliver Burger +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000277.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="277"> </A> +<I>Dick Gevers +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000233.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="233"> </A> +<I>Giuseppe Ghibò +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000245.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="245"> </A> +<I>Giuseppe Ghibò +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000248.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="248"> </A> +<I>Giuseppe Ghibò +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000254.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="254"> </A> +<I>Giuseppe Ghibò +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000256.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="256"> </A> +<I>Giuseppe Ghibò +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000266.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="266"> </A> +<I>Giuseppe Ghibò +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000271.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="271"> </A> +<I>Giuseppe Ghibò +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000247.html">[Mageia-dev] Small Mandriva problems to go thinking before Mageia Development begins +</A><A NAME="247"> </A> +<I>Dimitrios Glentadakis +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000240.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="240"> </A> +<I>David W. Hodgins +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000242.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="242"> </A> +<I>R James +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000243.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="243"> </A> +<I>R James +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000257.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="257"> </A> +<I>R James +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000236.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="236"> </A> +<I>Adjamilton Medeiros de Almeida Júnior +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000267.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="267"> </A> +<I>Adjamilton Medeiros de Almeida Júnior +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000235.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="235"> </A> +<I>Renaud MICHEL +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000234.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="234"> </A> +<I>André Machado +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000264.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="264"> </A> +<I>André Machado +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000272.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="272"> </A> +<I>Sinner from the Prairy +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000252.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="252"> </A> +<I>André Salaün +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000244.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="244"> </A> +<I>Ahmad Samir +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000239.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="239"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000262.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="262"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000263.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="263"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000268.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="268"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000278.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia server conception +</A><A NAME="278"> </A> +<I>Sascha Schneider +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000270.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="270"> </A> +<I>Pascal Terjan +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000232.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="232"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000237.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="237"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000238.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="238"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000273.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="273"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000279.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="279"> </A> +<I>Thierry Vignaud +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000261.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="261"> </A> +<I>andré +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000265.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="265"> </A> +<I>joris dedieu +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000251.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="251"> </A> +<I>farfouille +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000241.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="241"> </A> +<I>herman +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000269.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="269"> </A> +<I>nicolas vigier +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sun Sep 26 23:55:41 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sun Sep 26 23:56:09 CEST 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/date.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/date.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..40d1b8c7d --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/date.html @@ -0,0 +1,272 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 26 September 2010 Archive by date</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>26 September 2010 Archives by date</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sun Sep 26 00:12:54 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sun Sep 26 23:55:41 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 45<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="000232.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="232"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000233.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="233"> </A> +<I>Giuseppe Ghibò +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000235.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="235"> </A> +<I>Renaud MICHEL +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000234.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="234"> </A> +<I>André Machado +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000236.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="236"> </A> +<I>Adjamilton Medeiros de Almeida Júnior +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000237.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="237"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000238.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="238"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000239.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="239"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000240.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="240"> </A> +<I>David W. Hodgins +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000241.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="241"> </A> +<I>herman +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000242.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="242"> </A> +<I>R James +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000243.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="243"> </A> +<I>R James +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000244.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="244"> </A> +<I>Ahmad Samir +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000245.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="245"> </A> +<I>Giuseppe Ghibò +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000247.html">[Mageia-dev] Small Mandriva problems to go thinking before Mageia Development begins +</A><A NAME="247"> </A> +<I>Dimitrios Glentadakis +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000248.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="248"> </A> +<I>Giuseppe Ghibò +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000262.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="262"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000249.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="249"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000250.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="250"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000251.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="251"> </A> +<I>farfouille +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000252.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="252"> </A> +<I>André Salaün +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000253.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="253"> </A> +<I>Oliver Burger +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000254.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="254"> </A> +<I>Giuseppe Ghibò +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000255.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="255"> </A> +<I>Olivier Blin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000256.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="256"> </A> +<I>Giuseppe Ghibò +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000257.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="257"> </A> +<I>R James +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000258.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="258"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000259.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="259"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000260.html">[Mageia-dev] Small Mandriva problems to go thinking before Mageia Development begins +</A><A NAME="260"> </A> +<I>Marcello Anni +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000263.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="263"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000261.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="261"> </A> +<I>andré +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000264.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="264"> </A> +<I>André Machado +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000265.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="265"> </A> +<I>joris dedieu +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000266.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="266"> </A> +<I>Giuseppe Ghibò +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000267.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="267"> </A> +<I>Adjamilton Medeiros de Almeida Júnior +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000268.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="268"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000269.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="269"> </A> +<I>nicolas vigier +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000270.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="270"> </A> +<I>Pascal Terjan +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000271.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="271"> </A> +<I>Giuseppe Ghibò +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000272.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="272"> </A> +<I>Sinner from the Prairy +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000273.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="273"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000274.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="274"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000277.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="277"> </A> +<I>Dick Gevers +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000278.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia server conception +</A><A NAME="278"> </A> +<I>Sascha Schneider +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000279.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="279"> </A> +<I>Thierry Vignaud +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sun Sep 26 23:55:41 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sun Sep 26 23:56:09 CEST 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/index.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/index.html new file mode 120000 index 000000000..db4b46f72 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/index.html @@ -0,0 +1 @@ +thread.html
\ No newline at end of file diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/subject.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/subject.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..7c94db30c --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/subject.html @@ -0,0 +1,272 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 26 September 2010 Archive by subject</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>26 September 2010 Archives by subject</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sun Sep 26 00:12:54 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sun Sep 26 23:55:41 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 45<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="000232.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="232"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000233.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="233"> </A> +<I>Giuseppe Ghibò +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000235.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="235"> </A> +<I>Renaud MICHEL +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000234.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="234"> </A> +<I>André Machado +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000236.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="236"> </A> +<I>Adjamilton Medeiros de Almeida Júnior +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000237.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="237"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000238.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="238"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000239.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="239"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000240.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="240"> </A> +<I>David W. Hodgins +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000245.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="245"> </A> +<I>Giuseppe Ghibò +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000248.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="248"> </A> +<I>Giuseppe Ghibò +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000249.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="249"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000250.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="250"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000251.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="251"> </A> +<I>farfouille +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000252.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="252"> </A> +<I>André Salaün +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000253.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="253"> </A> +<I>Oliver Burger +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000254.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="254"> </A> +<I>Giuseppe Ghibò +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000256.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="256"> </A> +<I>Giuseppe Ghibò +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000258.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="258"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000259.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="259"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000261.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="261"> </A> +<I>andré +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000266.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="266"> </A> +<I>Giuseppe Ghibò +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000272.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="272"> </A> +<I>Sinner from the Prairy +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000273.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="273"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000274.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="274"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000277.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="277"> </A> +<I>Dick Gevers +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000279.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="279"> </A> +<I>Thierry Vignaud +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000278.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia server conception +</A><A NAME="278"> </A> +<I>Sascha Schneider +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000260.html">[Mageia-dev] Small Mandriva problems to go thinking before Mageia Development begins +</A><A NAME="260"> </A> +<I>Marcello Anni +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000247.html">[Mageia-dev] Small Mandriva problems to go thinking before Mageia Development begins +</A><A NAME="247"> </A> +<I>Dimitrios Glentadakis +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000241.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="241"> </A> +<I>herman +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000242.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="242"> </A> +<I>R James +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000243.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="243"> </A> +<I>R James +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000244.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="244"> </A> +<I>Ahmad Samir +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000262.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="262"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000255.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="255"> </A> +<I>Olivier Blin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000257.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="257"> </A> +<I>R James +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000263.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="263"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000264.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="264"> </A> +<I>André Machado +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000265.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="265"> </A> +<I>joris dedieu +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000267.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="267"> </A> +<I>Adjamilton Medeiros de Almeida Júnior +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000268.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="268"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000269.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="269"> </A> +<I>nicolas vigier +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000270.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="270"> </A> +<I>Pascal Terjan +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="000271.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="271"> </A> +<I>Giuseppe Ghibò +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sun Sep 26 23:55:41 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sun Sep 26 23:56:09 CEST 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/thread.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/thread.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..26d30c81d --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/thread.html @@ -0,0 +1,347 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-dev 26 September 2010 Archive by thread</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>26 September 2010 Archives by thread</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sun Sep 26 00:12:54 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sun Sep 26 23:55:41 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 45<p> + <ul> + +<!--0 01285452774- --> +<LI><A HREF="000232.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="232"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01285452774-01285456180- --> +<LI><A HREF="000233.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="233"> </A> +<I>Giuseppe Ghibò +</I> + +<UL> +<!--2 01285452774-01285456180-01285459302- --> +<LI><A HREF="000237.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="237"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<UL> +<!--3 01285452774-01285456180-01285459302-01285488700- --> +<LI><A HREF="000248.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="248"> </A> +<I>Giuseppe Ghibò +</I> + +</UL> +<!--2 01285452774-01285456180-01285499118- --> +<LI><A HREF="000249.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="249"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<UL> +<!--3 01285452774-01285456180-01285499118-01285503943- --> +<LI><A HREF="000256.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="256"> </A> +<I>Giuseppe Ghibò +</I> + +<!--3 01285452774-01285456180-01285499118-01285503943-01285506085- --> +<LI><A HREF="000259.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="259"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<!--3 01285452774-01285456180-01285499118-01285503943-01285521846- --> +<LI><A HREF="000273.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="273"> </A> +<I>Maarten Vanraes +</I> + +<!--3 01285452774-01285456180-01285499118-01285503943-01285521846-01285522369- --> +<LI><A HREF="000274.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="274"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<!--3 01285452774-01285456180-01285499118-01285503943-01285521846-01285522369-01285524360- --> +<LI><A HREF="000277.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="277"> </A> +<I>Dick Gevers +</I> + +<!--3 01285452774-01285456180-01285499118-01285503943-01285538141- --> +<LI><A HREF="000279.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="279"> </A> +<I>Thierry Vignaud +</I> + +<!--3 01285452774-01285456180-01285499118-01285521409- --> +<LI><A HREF="000272.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="272"> </A> +<I>Sinner from the Prairy +</I> + +</UL> +<!--2 01285452774-01285456180-01285499139- --> +<LI><A HREF="000250.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="250"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<UL> +<!--3 01285452774-01285456180-01285499139-01285500799- --> +<LI><A HREF="000252.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="252"> </A> +<I>André Salaün +</I> + +<!--3 01285452774-01285456180-01285499139-01285500799-01285501827- --> +<LI><A HREF="000253.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="253"> </A> +<I>Oliver Burger +</I> + +<!--3 01285452774-01285456180-01285499139-01285502369- --> +<LI><A HREF="000254.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="254"> </A> +<I>Giuseppe Ghibò +</I> + +<!--3 01285452774-01285456180-01285499139-01285502369-01285505289- --> +<LI><A HREF="000258.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="258"> </A> +<I>Thomas Backlund +</I> + +<!--3 01285452774-01285456180-01285499139-01285502369-01285505289-01285509359- --> +<LI><A HREF="000261.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="261"> </A> +<I>andré +</I> + +<!--3 01285452774-01285456180-01285499139-01285502369-01285505289-01285509359-01285513459- --> +<LI><A HREF="000266.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="266"> </A> +<I>Giuseppe Ghibò +</I> + +</UL> +</UL> +<!--1 01285452774-01285456617- --> +<LI><A HREF="000235.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="235"> </A> +<I>Renaud MICHEL +</I> + +<UL> +<!--2 01285452774-01285456617-01285462415- --> +<LI><A HREF="000239.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="239"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 01285458341- --> +<LI><A HREF="000234.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="234"> </A> +<I>André Machado +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01285458341-01285459060- --> +<LI><A HREF="000236.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="236"> </A> +<I>Adjamilton Medeiros de Almeida Júnior +</I> + +<!--1 01285458341-01285460195- --> +<LI><A HREF="000238.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="238"> </A> +<I>Tux99 +</I> + +<!--1 01285458341-01285466763- --> +<LI><A HREF="000240.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="240"> </A> +<I>David W. Hodgins +</I> + +<!--1 01285458341-01285485860- --> +<LI><A HREF="000245.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="245"> </A> +<I>Giuseppe Ghibò +</I> + +<UL> +<!--2 01285458341-01285485860-01285499918- --> +<LI><A HREF="000251.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A><A NAME="251"> </A> +<I>farfouille +</I> + +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 01285473405- --> +<LI><A HREF="000241.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="241"> </A> +<I>herman +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01285473405-01285478778- --> +<LI><A HREF="000242.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="242"> </A> +<I>R James +</I> + +<UL> +<!--2 01285473405-01285478778-01285479903- --> +<LI><A HREF="000243.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="243"> </A> +<I>R James +</I> + +<UL> +<!--3 01285473405-01285478778-01285479903-01285481218- --> +<LI><A HREF="000244.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="244"> </A> +<I>Ahmad Samir +</I> + +</UL> +<!--2 01285473405-01285478778-01285503760- --> +<LI><A HREF="000255.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="255"> </A> +<I>Olivier Blin +</I> + +<UL> +<!--3 01285473405-01285478778-01285503760-01285504606- --> +<LI><A HREF="000257.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="257"> </A> +<I>R James +</I> + +<!--3 01285473405-01285478778-01285503760-01285508299- --> +<LI><A HREF="000263.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="263"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<!--3 01285473405-01285478778-01285503760-01285513445- --> +<LI><A HREF="000265.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="265"> </A> +<I>joris dedieu +</I> + +<!--3 01285473405-01285478778-01285503760-01285513445-01285517056- --> +<LI><A HREF="000268.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="268"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<!--3 01285473405-01285478778-01285503760-01285513445-01285518368- --> +<LI><A HREF="000269.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="269"> </A> +<I>nicolas vigier +</I> + +<!--3 01285473405-01285478778-01285503760-01285513445-01285518368-01285521255- --> +<LI><A HREF="000271.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="271"> </A> +<I>Giuseppe Ghibò +</I> + +</UL> +</UL> +<!--1 01285473405-01285493904- --> +<LI><A HREF="000262.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="262"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<UL> +<!--2 01285473405-01285493904-01285520935- --> +<LI><A HREF="000270.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="270"> </A> +<I>Pascal Terjan +</I> + +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 01285488308- --> +<LI><A HREF="000247.html">[Mageia-dev] Small Mandriva problems to go thinking before Mageia Development begins +</A><A NAME="247"> </A> +<I>Dimitrios Glentadakis +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01285488308-01285508219- --> +<LI><A HREF="000260.html">[Mageia-dev] Small Mandriva problems to go thinking before Mageia Development begins +</A><A NAME="260"> </A> +<I>Marcello Anni +</I> + +</UL> +<!--0 01285511257- --> +<LI><A HREF="000264.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="264"> </A> +<I>André Machado +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01285511257-01285513530- --> +<LI><A HREF="000267.html">[Mageia-dev] Will this work for a build system? +</A><A NAME="267"> </A> +<I>Adjamilton Medeiros de Almeida Júnior +</I> + +</UL> +<!--0 01285530510- --> +<LI><A HREF="000278.html">[Mageia-dev] Mageia server conception +</A><A NAME="278"> </A> +<I>Sascha Schneider +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sun Sep 26 23:55:41 CEST 2010</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sun Sep 26 23:56:09 CEST 2010</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + |