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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20100922/000766.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20100922/000766.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..eb906be27 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20100922/000766.html @@ -0,0 +1,306 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Thank you - Merci - Danke - Gracias - Grazie - Obrigado - спасибо + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%0A%20%3D%3Futf-8%3Fq%3FThank_you_-_Merci_-_Danke_-_Gracias_-_%3F%3D%0A%20%3D%3Futf-8%3Fb%3FR3JhemllIC0gT2JyaWdhZG8gLSDRgdC/0LDRgdC40LHQvg%3D%3D%3F%3D&In-Reply-To=%3Ci7dqe8%24uv3%241%40dough.gmane.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000759.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000774.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Thank you - Merci - Danke - Gracias - Grazie - Obrigado - спасибо</H1> + <B>Marc Paré</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%0A%20%3D%3Futf-8%3Fq%3FThank_you_-_Merci_-_Danke_-_Gracias_-_%3F%3D%0A%20%3D%3Futf-8%3Fb%3FR3JhemllIC0gT2JyaWdhZG8gLSDRgdC/0LDRgdC40LHQvg%3D%3D%3F%3D&In-Reply-To=%3Ci7dqe8%24uv3%241%40dough.gmane.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Thank you - Merci - Danke - Gracias - Grazie - Obrigado - спасибо">marc at marcpare.com + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Sep 22 22:54:31 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000759.html">[Mageia-discuss] Thank you - Merci - Danke - Gracias - Grazie - Obrigado - спасибо +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000774.html">[Mageia-discuss] Thank you - Merci - Danke - Gracias - Grazie - Obrigado - спасибо +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#766">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#766">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#766">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#766">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le 2010-09-22 16:04, Michael Scherer a écrit : +><i> Le mercredi 22 septembre 2010 à 12:11 -0400, Marc Paré a écrit : +</I>>><i> Le 2010-09-22 10:41, Michael Scherer a écrit : +</I>>>><i> Le mardi 21 septembre 2010 à 16:53 -0400, Marc Paré a écrit : +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>>><i> Would it make sense to also have a section for "mageia" domain owners to +</I>>>>><i> track domain owners who are willing to cooperate? You will eventually +</I>>>>><i> have to do this anyway. I would also consider this also a type of offer +</I>>>>><i> of cooperation and help. +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> Personally, I think we should not collect all domain names to give them +</I>>>><i> to the association : +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> The offer was to pass on the domain if the Mageia project wanted to have +</I>>><i> it. It adds flexibility +</I>>><i> +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> 1) each domain name will need admin time. Either to manage ( ie, set up +</I>>>><i> vhost, setup the zone, add a entry to the zone etc ), or to renew. While +</I>>>><i> renewing 1 domain name every year is easy, renewing 10 or 20 on 10 to 20 +</I>>>><i> different resellers, for different prices and so on will be quite +</I>>>><i> annoying. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> When passing off a domain, the reseller is transferred. You then +</I>>><i> consolidate all under on reseller. I do this all the time. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Well, depending on the domain, I am not sure that all of them can be +</I>><i> transferred everywhere. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> For example, .ie is restricted as Colin Guthrie explained to me for the +</I>><i> 10 years of Mandriva. And it seems that you cannot buy .ie at gandi.net, +</I>><i> which is the reseller we have used. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> So I do not know if they can manage every type of TLD. +</I> +If you register with a larger reseller, they will have offices in most +countries to get around this. They then offer you an account that +consolidates all domains. The contact information is then coordinated +from this account. + +><i> +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> 2) this will also generate work for people in charge of comptability, +</I>>>><i> and we know that people doing the work of a CFO are a scarce ressources +</I>>>><i> ( CFO may not be the proper word, but I didn't found better ). +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> You set a pointer to the main site and there is no need to use the other +</I>>><i> domain names if you do not wish. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I mean administrative work, like taking care of the bill, reporting them +</I>><i> on the financial report, etc. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I never managed a association as a treasurer, so I do not know how much +</I>><i> paperwork is really required, or if this is really annoying, but all the +</I>><i> one that I know are always already overworked, so I am sure that less +</I>><i> work is better. +</I>><i> +</I> +It is really not that much of a burden. You can coordinate the billing +periods with your reseller. They will be more than happy to help you +with this. + +><i> +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> If we use for http : +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> 4) too much domain will be a pain from a ssl point of view. If we start +</I>>>><i> to need ssl for a site, and there is 10 Vhost for it, we will just have +</I>>>><i> 10 time the work to renew certificates. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Not applicable if you redirect the domains. You would then only have to +</I>>><i> establish certificates for those domains that you intend to use. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I beg to differ. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> For a http redirect, this will require first to connect using https then +</I>><i> send the redirect at http level, so a valid certificate is needed before +</I>><i> the redirect. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> If you speak of a "dns redirect", you can either use a A record, in +</I>><i> which case the issue would still be valid since browser will ask for the +</I>><i> certificate of the first domain name, not the redirected one. Or you can +</I>><i> use a CNAME record, in which case, the issue is the same. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Maybe I forgot something or overlooked it however, but I am quite +</I>><i> confident of this. And since this will be different TLDs, you cannot use +</I>><i> a wildcard certificate. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Of course, a solution would be to basically use the same certificate +</I>><i> everywhere and let warnings appear, this is not a big issue. +</I> +Your reseller and/or hosting service would most likely help you out with +this as well. + +><i> +</I>><i> +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> 5) too much domain will also requires more work for simple http, since +</I>>>><i> we will have lots of them. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Not applicable if you set a pointer. This will also depend on the amount +</I>>><i> of website developers help who have signed up. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Well, it mostly depend on the number of vhost needed. For exemple, if we +</I>><i> want to have blog.example.fr redirect to blog.example.org, we need to +</I>><i> create a vhost with the redirection. Te issue can be alleviated by using +</I>><i> some mod_rewrite tricks. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> But yes, for the case you gave of simple http redirect, this is not +</I>><i> tricky to handle. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> But it depend on what will be needed. Worst case would be to have +</I>><i> conditional vhost for each domain ( like only have a blog on some +</I>><i> subdomain and not others ). +</I> +The hosting service I use give you unlimited redirects and domain +parking. -- 123ehost.com. It works well and quite painless. These are +set up in minutes. + +><i> +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> 6) too much different url will just mean more confusion. I may also fear +</I>>>><i> this could be seen by major search engine as unethic SEO, and thus be +</I>>>><i> punished ( since link farm is a commonly used technic to try to hijack +</I>>>><i> some keywords ). But Google, Yahoo and Bing systems are closed source, +</I>>>><i> so I do not know. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> This is not unethic as all business on the internet do this as common +</I>>><i> practice. Try to type in URL's for any major corporation, or Yahoo!, +</I>>><i> Google, Bing etc. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Well, yahoo.fr and yahoo.com do not give the same server, and there is +</I>><i> some high level redirection. So does Dell ( 2 differents sites ), Apple +</I>><i> ( not the same server, not the same page, redirection to .com with a +</I>><i> url ), Microsoft ( does like Apple ), Renault ( not the same ip, some +</I>><i> wierd redirection ), Peugeot. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Ie, among the test i did, only Google and Bind do have the same page +</I>><i> across various urls. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> So my own understanding is that they appear to be different entities to +</I>><i> most search engines. +</I> +Due to the load on their services, as well as different national +conditions put on these companies (RIM and problems with their +BlackBerry servers in UAE and India etc is a good example), to them, it +makes sense to have separate servers. However, Mageia would not suffer +at the outset from such a load and if it did, you could then make +allowances for this. + +><i> +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> If we use for mail : +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> 7) too much domain will simply mean more spam. If we offer multiple +</I>>>><i> email ( like "<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">example at mageia.org</A>, and .de, and .fr and .cn, and so on ), +</I>>>><i> email will simply appear in more list, and therefore be more spammed. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Domains do not have to be activated for mail. If a domain is not +</I>>><i> activated for mail service then the mail bounces back to the sender. +</I>>><i> This is done all of the time. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Well, that why I have said "if we use it for mail". +</I>><i> +</I>><i> And I see at least 1 person using the domain name he bought and offered +</I>><i> us to use ( see Tomáš Kindl on +</I>><i> <A HREF="http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=ressources">http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=ressources</A> ). +</I>><i> +</I> +This is easily set up. Mageia devs and core groups (once formally +established) are more than welcome to have a "<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">____ at mageia.ca</A> mail +account if they want one. I will set that up for them along with POP, +SMTP and Webmail. + +>>><i> +</I>>>><i> 9) and of course, too much domain name, like for websites will mean more +</I>>>><i> confusion. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> It means less confusion. mageia.org will lead to main site; mageia.ca +</I>>><i> does lead to main site; magiea.nl would lead to main site; mageia.net +</I>>><i> would lead to main site; mageia.info would lead to main site ... How +</I>>><i> would this be confusing? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I was not clear, I was speaking of mail address ( if we use them ). +</I>><i> And so this would bring confusion because people often rely on the mail +</I>><i> to see if someone is a official developer or not. Hence, if we use the +</I>><i> domain for mail, people will use them to post on ml, I assume people +</I>><i> will use them. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Of course, as you said, we can also decide to not use it. +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> By doing business the way that you advocate, you actually lower the +</I>>><i> fidelity that one would assume of a serious group. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> We are not creating a business, but a free software project, IIRC. So +</I>><i> some concepts may not be applicable directly. And I think that part of +</I>><i> the fidelity would be earned with local user group with their own +</I>><i> identity and presence, and likely their own choices, independances and +</I>><i> domain names. +</I> +If you are looking for foundation grants or government grants, they will +want to see a business model. They will not lend money to Mageia on +loose terms. Would you? The core group will have no choice but to adopt +a business plan if they really want the project to reach their +advertised goals. Ask any arts group that has applied for grants. + +><i> +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> So +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> 10) by registering every possible variation, we are acting selfishly +</I>>>><i> toward others netizens. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> You have already covered these points up above with #9. #10 is not a new +</I>>><i> point. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> No, 10 is for the paragraph about "lack of good domain name on the +</I>><i> internet" before, based on the problem about finding a name, and about +</I>><i> being nice with other people who may use the name in unrelated way. +</I>><i> +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> The only answer I got was about security. But seriously, security of +</I>>>><i> what ? Protecting from people doing phishing ? Bank already fail at +</I>>>><i> this, and you think we can ? +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Who mentioned security? This is all about flexibility. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> First time I mentioned the issue 2 days ago. But I think this was on +</I>><i> irc, since I cannot find anything in the mailling list archives :/ +</I> +No worry there, there are already speculators who have gobbled up the +"Mageia" domain permutations that they think will stick, hoping that the +Mageia project will bring great success. This, hoping to cash out later +on. I even sent a note out to Anne on Sunday night letting her know that +the sites were being bought out at a feverish pace. + +This is why I think that a further name change later on may be in the +cards if we find that the "Mageia" domain situation is untenable. +><i> +</I>><i> ( if someone can confirm that I didn't dream... ) +</I>><i> +</I> + +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000759.html">[Mageia-discuss] Thank you - Merci - Danke - Gracias - Grazie - Obrigado - спасибо +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000774.html">[Mageia-discuss] Thank you - Merci - Danke - Gracias - Grazie - Obrigado - спасибо +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#766">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#766">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#766">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#766">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |