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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20100922/000759.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20100922/000759.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..6fcaa6d7c --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20100922/000759.html @@ -0,0 +1,257 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Thank you - Merci - Danke - Gracias - Grazie - Obrigado - спасибо + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%0A%20%3D%3Futf-8%3Fq%3FThank_you_-_Merci_-_Danke_-_Gracias_-_%3F%3D%0A%20%3D%3Futf-8%3Fb%3FR3JhemllIC0gT2JyaWdhZG8gLSDRgdC/0LDRgdC40LHQvg%3D%3D%3F%3D&In-Reply-To=%3C1285185859.26110.878.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000712.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000766.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Thank you - Merci - Danke - Gracias - Grazie - Obrigado - спасибо</H1> + <B>Michael Scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%0A%20%3D%3Futf-8%3Fq%3FThank_you_-_Merci_-_Danke_-_Gracias_-_%3F%3D%0A%20%3D%3Futf-8%3Fb%3FR3JhemllIC0gT2JyaWdhZG8gLSDRgdC/0LDRgdC40LHQvg%3D%3D%3F%3D&In-Reply-To=%3C1285185859.26110.878.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Thank you - Merci - Danke - Gracias - Grazie - Obrigado - спасибо">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Sep 22 22:04:19 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000712.html">[Mageia-discuss] Thank you - Merci - Danke - Gracias - Grazie - Obrigado - спасибо +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000766.html">[Mageia-discuss] Thank you - Merci - Danke - Gracias - Grazie - Obrigado - спасибо +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#759">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#759">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#759">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#759">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le mercredi 22 septembre 2010 à 12:11 -0400, Marc Paré a écrit : +><i> Le 2010-09-22 10:41, Michael Scherer a écrit : +</I>><i> > Le mardi 21 septembre 2010 à 16:53 -0400, Marc Paré a écrit : +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> >> Would it make sense to also have a section for "mageia" domain owners to +</I>><i> >> track domain owners who are willing to cooperate? You will eventually +</I>><i> >> have to do this anyway. I would also consider this also a type of offer +</I>><i> >> of cooperation and help. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Personally, I think we should not collect all domain names to give them +</I>><i> > to the association : +</I>><i> +</I>><i> The offer was to pass on the domain if the Mageia project wanted to have +</I>><i> it. It adds flexibility +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > 1) each domain name will need admin time. Either to manage ( ie, set up +</I>><i> > vhost, setup the zone, add a entry to the zone etc ), or to renew. While +</I>><i> > renewing 1 domain name every year is easy, renewing 10 or 20 on 10 to 20 +</I>><i> > different resellers, for different prices and so on will be quite +</I>><i> > annoying. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> When passing off a domain, the reseller is transferred. You then +</I>><i> consolidate all under on reseller. I do this all the time. +</I> +Well, depending on the domain, I am not sure that all of them can be +transferred everywhere. + +For example, .ie is restricted as Colin Guthrie explained to me for the +10 years of Mandriva. And it seems that you cannot buy .ie at gandi.net, +which is the reseller we have used. + +So I do not know if they can manage every type of TLD. + +><i> > +</I>><i> > 2) this will also generate work for people in charge of comptability, +</I>><i> > and we know that people doing the work of a CFO are a scarce ressources +</I>><i> > ( CFO may not be the proper word, but I didn't found better ). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> You set a pointer to the main site and there is no need to use the other +</I>><i> domain names if you do not wish. +</I> +I mean administrative work, like taking care of the bill, reporting them +on the financial report, etc. + +I never managed a association as a treasurer, so I do not know how much +paperwork is really required, or if this is really annoying, but all the +one that I know are always already overworked, so I am sure that less +work is better. + + +><i> > +</I>><i> > If we use for http : +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > 4) too much domain will be a pain from a ssl point of view. If we start +</I>><i> > to need ssl for a site, and there is 10 Vhost for it, we will just have +</I>><i> > 10 time the work to renew certificates. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Not applicable if you redirect the domains. You would then only have to +</I>><i> establish certificates for those domains that you intend to use. +</I> +I beg to differ. + +For a http redirect, this will require first to connect using https then +send the redirect at http level, so a valid certificate is needed before +the redirect. + +If you speak of a "dns redirect", you can either use a A record, in +which case the issue would still be valid since browser will ask for the +certificate of the first domain name, not the redirected one. Or you can +use a CNAME record, in which case, the issue is the same. + +Maybe I forgot something or overlooked it however, but I am quite +confident of this. And since this will be different TLDs, you cannot use +a wildcard certificate. + +Of course, a solution would be to basically use the same certificate +everywhere and let warnings appear, this is not a big issue. + + +><i> > +</I>><i> > 5) too much domain will also requires more work for simple http, since +</I>><i> > we will have lots of them. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Not applicable if you set a pointer. This will also depend on the amount +</I>><i> of website developers help who have signed up. +</I> +Well, it mostly depend on the number of vhost needed. For exemple, if we +want to have blog.example.fr redirect to blog.example.org, we need to +create a vhost with the redirection. Te issue can be alleviated by using +some mod_rewrite tricks. + +But yes, for the case you gave of simple http redirect, this is not +tricky to handle. + +But it depend on what will be needed. Worst case would be to have +conditional vhost for each domain ( like only have a blog on some +subdomain and not others ). + +><i> > +</I>><i> > 6) too much different url will just mean more confusion. I may also fear +</I>><i> > this could be seen by major search engine as unethic SEO, and thus be +</I>><i> > punished ( since link farm is a commonly used technic to try to hijack +</I>><i> > some keywords ). But Google, Yahoo and Bing systems are closed source, +</I>><i> > so I do not know. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> This is not unethic as all business on the internet do this as common +</I>><i> practice. Try to type in URL's for any major corporation, or Yahoo!, +</I>><i> Google, Bing etc. +</I> +Well, yahoo.fr and yahoo.com do not give the same server, and there is +some high level redirection. So does Dell ( 2 differents sites ), Apple +( not the same server, not the same page, redirection to .com with a +url ), Microsoft ( does like Apple ), Renault ( not the same ip, some +wierd redirection ), Peugeot. + +Ie, among the test i did, only Google and Bind do have the same page +across various urls. + +So my own understanding is that they appear to be different entities to +most search engines. + +><i> > +</I>><i> > If we use for mail : +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > 7) too much domain will simply mean more spam. If we offer multiple +</I>><i> > email ( like "<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">example at mageia.org</A>, and .de, and .fr and .cn, and so on ), +</I>><i> > email will simply appear in more list, and therefore be more spammed. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Domains do not have to be activated for mail. If a domain is not +</I>><i> activated for mail service then the mail bounces back to the sender. +</I>><i> This is done all of the time. +</I> +Well, that why I have said "if we use it for mail". + +And I see at least 1 person using the domain name he bought and offered +us to use ( see Tomáš Kindl on +<A HREF="http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=ressources">http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=ressources</A> ). + +><i> > +</I>><i> > 9) and of course, too much domain name, like for websites will mean more +</I>><i> > confusion. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> It means less confusion. mageia.org will lead to main site; mageia.ca +</I>><i> does lead to main site; magiea.nl would lead to main site; mageia.net +</I>><i> would lead to main site; mageia.info would lead to main site ... How +</I>><i> would this be confusing? +</I> +I was not clear, I was speaking of mail address ( if we use them ). +And so this would bring confusion because people often rely on the mail +to see if someone is a official developer or not. Hence, if we use the +domain for mail, people will use them to post on ml, I assume people +will use them. + +Of course, as you said, we can also decide to not use it. + +><i> By doing business the way that you advocate, you actually lower the +</I>><i> fidelity that one would assume of a serious group. +</I> +We are not creating a business, but a free software project, IIRC. So +some concepts may not be applicable directly. And I think that part of +the fidelity would be earned with local user group with their own +identity and presence, and likely their own choices, independances and +domain names. + +><i> > +</I>><i> > So +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > 10) by registering every possible variation, we are acting selfishly +</I>><i> > toward others netizens. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> You have already covered these points up above with #9. #10 is not a new +</I>><i> point. +</I> +No, 10 is for the paragraph about "lack of good domain name on the +internet" before, based on the problem about finding a name, and about +being nice with other people who may use the name in unrelated way. + +><i> > +</I>><i> > The only answer I got was about security. But seriously, security of +</I>><i> > what ? Protecting from people doing phishing ? Bank already fail at +</I>><i> > this, and you think we can ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Who mentioned security? This is all about flexibility. +</I> +First time I mentioned the issue 2 days ago. But I think this was on +irc, since I cannot find anything in the mailling list archives :/ + +( if someone can confirm that I didn't dream... ) + +-- +Michael Scherer + +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000712.html">[Mageia-discuss] Thank you - Merci - Danke - Gracias - Grazie - Obrigado - спасибо +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000766.html">[Mageia-discuss] Thank you - Merci - Danke - Gracias - Grazie - Obrigado - спасибо +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#759">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#759">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#759">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#759">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |